Skin Cancer | S3E3 (E023)
This episode we cover the downsides to sun exposure. While we love the health benefits of getting outdoors and into sunlight, the reality is there are downsides. Toréa shares her story of getting a skin cancer diagnosis and how she handled receiving the diagnosis, options for treatment and how its changed her relationship to the sun (a bit). Learning how to catch skin cancer early is the key, so listen in to hear how to do that!
In This Episode
Downsides to sun exposure (01:41)
A skin cancer diagnosis (02:25)
Porokeratosis (04:37)
Angry moles (06:05)
Basal cell carcinoma treatments (07:37)
Immunogenic topical treatment (10:05)
What’s changed post diagnosis (12:54)
Getting a dermatological baseline (17:20)
Adjusting the medical model mindset (18:21)
UV protective clothing (20:23)
Cultivating faith in a treatment model (25:38)
Balancing medical models (27:29)
Resources Mentioned
Deep Transformation program waitlist
Join the Optimized Wellness Community
Submit your question for the show!
Transcript
Toréa Rodriguez 0:08
Welcome to the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. I am your host, Toréa Rodriguez. And I'm joined by the lovely co host, Evie Takacs. Both of us our Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioners and we love working with women from all over the world, through our virtual programs, helping women not only feel better, but actually achieve that vibrant, no holds barred version of themselves, they've been missing for a long time, and how we actually get there. Well, that is what this show is all about. Now, please keep in mind that this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be used as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment. And if you like what you hear today, we would love for you to hit that follow button, leave a review in Apple podcast, share with your friends, and keep coming back for more. Let's start today's adventure shall we?
Okay, cool. So today we're going to talk about a topic that is a follow up to a topic that we talked about in Season Two, which is Sun Exposure. Evie and I both are proponents of getting some sun exposure, especially at certain times of the day.
Evie Takacs 1:24
Yes, we are.
Toréa Rodriguez 1:24
And we also know that we didn't talk about the negative side effects, or the downsides of getting too much sun exposure. So today, we're going to devote this episode to the downsides of sun exposure, which can lead to skin cancers. So we're going to talk a little bit about that.
Evie Takacs 1:41
Yeah, I think, you know, I got some feedback from that episode of like well, you know, you know, how much is too much, or, you know, you didn't really mention the potential side effects, or I have friends that are estheticians. And they're very particular about that, and or, they're, they are afraid of the sun. And I think that yeah, you know, a lot of my friends who see estheticians regularly, they're afraid of the sun. And I understand that there are definitely things to be on the lookout for as there's going to be with everything in life.
Toréa Rodriguez 2:09
Of course
Evie Takacs 2:09
But we we didn't want to seem ignorant to that fact of like, there are these very real things such as skin cancer, that can also come as well. So I think it'll be good for us to talk about that, and touch on that, and really some firsthand experience, you know, kind of current events of what's going on with you.
Toréa Rodriguez 2:25
Yes, exactly.So I'll give a little bit of a recent history. So for those of you not watching the video, if you were to look at a picture of me or see a picture of me, you can tell that I've got fair skin and blonde hair. And, you know, I have Norwegian and Dutch descent and so definitely Scandinavian genetics. And so I've always been susceptible to early sunburn. So my limits last time when we talked about sun exposure and talking about what's an appropriate amount of time in the sun, I know that I can't really go unprotected, more than about 30 minutes, and then I'm going to burn and I'm going to regret it because when it burns it definitely I get the like stingy burns. So I don't enjoy that experience at all. And some people can go longer than that. But what we know about overexposure to the sun, right is that it can damage the skin cells, and then the skin cells can turn into cancerous skin cells. And that can lead towards various different types and classifications of skin cancer. And whether it happens with one burn, I don't think it happens with one burn. But it can happen over the course of repeated burns and repeated damage to the skin cells from sun exposure and non protected sun exposure. That's really what we're talking about as non protected sun exposure. Otherwise, if you were protected, you'd be wearing a sunscreen or some protective clothing or a hat or staying in the shade. Like those are all various forms of sun protection. But most recently, this year, I noticed some changes to my skin. And lo and behold, it turned out to be basal cell carcinoma skin cancer, which is a very common form of skin cancer. So I've been learning a lot about skin cancer in the recent months and learning a little bit more about how difficult it is to self identify skin cancers over the last couple months.
Evie Takacs 4:26
Yeah, so was this just a routine checkup? Or because it sounds like you didn't? You didn't have any troubling spots or troubling areas of like, oh, I should probably get this checked out. How did how did that even come about for you?
Toréa Rodriguez 4:37
Yeah, that's a really great question. So I have natural spots on my skin. And so those spots are a genetic condition called porokeratosis. And so there are certain places on my arms and my legs that I have these pink spots that are totally benign. There's nothing really that dermatologists know can effectively treat porokeratosis but it's just crazy. these pink spots on the skin. And I've had them for, I don't know, decades, like, it's just been something that's been part of my life. And so what's interesting though, to me is that these spots on my skin are pink. So I have fair skin tone, and so they're pinkish in color. And they stand out because they're pink. And I've had those for a very long time. What I noticed, however, is that on my arm, I noticed what I thought was a mole show up on my arm. And I was like, interesting. I think I have a mole there. And then, yeah, as time passed, and of course, most of this noticing happened during the pandemic. So that kind of lengthened the time for me to actually seek attention for it. But what I noticed about this mole is that within a few months, that mole got "angry." So that's me with finger quotes with angry, meaning it, it got red, it got scaly, and would flake off and then sometimes it would bleed and the bleeding would be difficult to stop. Like, it's one of those like, real sensitive spots. So I was like, huh, angry moles. I've heard about angry moles. And usually the dermatologist doesn't like angry moles. And so that's what caused me to go see a dermatologist. Yeah. And when she saw it, that was an immediate, like, that's coming off right now. We know that's basal cell carcinoma, and we're gonna go ahead and biopsy that site. What, unbeknownst to me, when we did a full skin check after that appointment, is there were a lot of other spots on my chest and my shoulders that were also basal cell. But they were pink spots. And so I had mistaken them. Yeah, they to me, because I untrained eye, right? To me, they looked like these porokeratosis spots. So I was like, oh, there's other pink spots. And so the education that I got for my dermatologist, is that the porokeratosis has kind of a border, a raised border around it, whereas these pink spots did not. And it wasn't a uniform circular shape, like these other porokeratosis spots. And so she helped me identify that basal cell carcinoma can look very different. So none of these spots look like angry moles, right? They were just pink spots on my skin. And they can look different from person to person, which I thought was really interesting about basal cell.
Evie Takacs 7:22
Yeah. And, well, one, how did you feel with that news, right? I'm sure it's not easy to hear. And like, what was that process for you of thinking you were just gonna go get this one thing removed or get this one thing looked at? And then all of a sudden, you're like, wait, What? What? What do I have now?
Toréa Rodriguez 7:37
Wait, there's more? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. So I think, you know, the first the mole looking one, right? She was like, oh, yeah, no problem, we're just going to take that off. I had geared myself up because the treatment plan on that one, we did the biopsy, and then it was determined that they needed to take more tissue out of the arm. So we had to do what's called an excision surgery on the arm and cut out the tissue basically, until you got clear margins. So I had geared myself up for like, okay, I can handle this, and we're going to have a scar, and it's going to be some healing time. And that's cool. But then, you know, I'm done with my cancer story. And then when I had that full skin check, and we found seven other spots, I was kind of like, whoa, wait a minute. That's, that's a lot. That's a lot of spots, in my mind. And from a dermatologist perspective, that's not a lot of spots, really, like they've seen worse, they've seen basal cell carcinoma all over people's skin, or really deeply embedded into people's skin. And so these were very superficial spots, and most of them could be taken care of through liquid nitrogen. So they just froze those spots off with the exception of two of those spots, two of those spots had to have a different kind of treatment. But I think it was really interesting mental exercise for me to go through to understand that, Oh, this isn't necessarily a one and done kind of thing. This is going to be something that I'm going to have to think about from now until the future, is just really making sure that I'm conscious and aware of how much sun protection I am using, but also knowing that I am fair skinned and I am light toned that this could be something that comes back. And so I think it took a little while for me to shift the diagnosis from oh my god, I'm gonna die to actually this is manageable. It's very common, and for the most part, and I'm not going to say all parts because I have read up on basal cell carcinoma and it can be dangerous, but for the most part, if it's caught early, then it's a non issue. It just takes a little bit of freezing or a little bit of topical treatment, which is great, great news, if you can find it early.
Evie Takacs 10:00
Yeah, that's what you've been doing is a topical treatment primarily right? Are you? Are you finished with that? Or?
Toréa Rodriguez 10:05
Yes. So on those two spots that remained, yeah, we had to do a topical treatment that was a, it's a form of chemotherapy, but it's not a cell destroying chemotherapy, it's a immunogenic one. So basically, what it was doing is it was stirring up the immune system at that site, to have the immune system come in and attack those cells and destroy those cells and get rid of them. That process is... it causes a lot of like, irritation and redness as you can imagine, like when the immune system is coming in to like heal something, if you think about a cut on your finger, that cut doesn't just, you know, go back to normal skin right away. First, it has to, like swell up and get red and inflamed and all of those things and you know, it's sore. Same kind of thing happened at that site where I was doing the topical cream, but then eventually what ends up happening is that those cells start to flake off and go away, and it's replaced with new cells. And so that process took five to six weeks of doing that. And it got very intense at the end. Like it was definitely an intense, like, very sensitive to the touch kind of spot. Okay, but it seems to be healing very nicely. And I still have to go in for the follow up. But yeah, that was one of the treatments that I ended up doing.
Evie Takacs 11:27
Yeah. And how often? Well, I guess now that you've been through this, you're gonna be diligent with checking in and having this right, like getting scanned and having the doctor look, but yeah, are there more frequent check ins up until a certain point? Where are you like, Okay, we clear this, we got this. Now I can go back to doing like a yearly check in with you?
Toréa Rodriguez 11:45
That is to be determined. So when I was having that conversation with the dermatologist, initially with the single spot, she was like, Okay, you're on six month checks, like from here on out. That's just how it is. And to be clear, I have family history of basal cell carcinoma, squamous cell carcinoma, and melanoma. So the latter two being the more serious skin cancer types. And so because of that, she just felt six months checks were in order. I would agree with her, especially since I couldn't recognize what I thought was just a benign pink spot, right? I couldn't recognize it. Now that I've had more spots for the next year, I'm on three month checks, just to make sure that it doesn't come back. Once we get through that year, then probably six month checks from that point forward.
Evie Takacs 12:37
Okay. And what are some of the like, what do you have to do differently now? Because I mean, I know that you're not hiding from the sun, like you were just paddleboarding this weekend like you're being you're outside, you're trying to get the benefits that we discussed in that other episode. But yeah, what are some of the things that you're doing differently now, because of this experience?
Toréa Rodriguez 12:54
I would say that what's changed for me is just being a lot more intentional about sun protection in the sense of getting a broader brimmed hat. So before I would get maybe like a baseball cap, right, or a trucker hat, or whatever, and just shade my face, but now I recognize like, if I do that, then the ears are exposed, the back of the neck is exposed. So a broader brimmed hat. Thank God, they're in fashion right now. So that's awesome. So wearing a hat getting used to longer sleeve UV protection clothing, I definitely am a tank top kind of girl like sleeves, I call them arm prisons, I don't really like sleeves. I've never liked sleeves, even in the winter. So you know, getting used to that kind of protection, but making sure that my unprotected sun exposure time, is at earlier times of the day with less of a UV index. And I think that is really the piece that has changed the most I used to say, Okay, well, I haven't had any sun exposure. Today, it's noon, I'm gonna go eat my lunch outside. But what's happening is that UV index is so strong at noon, that I'm getting much more intense radiation, UV radiation from the sun, versus when I'm doing it in the morning, then it's less intense, and I'm still getting those benefits. So I think just changing a little bit of my sun protection regime in terms of clothing, and then also just time of day has changed a little bit.
Evie Takacs 14:23
Yeah. And that's one that's definitely important for most people to know anyways of like, you know, the closer to solar noon that you are outside, the higher that UVB rays are going to be and so it is better if you're going to be more unprotected to be doing it earlier or later in the day, when like that, you know, solar noon has finished. And I think that, again, we talked about it in the sun exposure episode of what's really important. There's so many benefits to it, but again, there's always gonna be that other side. And so it's helpful to hear and be reminded because especially for people like me, I tend to you know, I could be better about my sun exposure in terms of not going for so long without sunscreen. So for me, this is good. And it's like, I'm not really in a good habit of getting checked. But I also do have darker skin than you as well. So I think I've just kind of used that, right. But it's important to remember because, you know, I have spots on my skin that I'm like, I'm not quite sure what you are you like an acne scar? Or are you something else, you know. So I, you know, something that is important. It's a good reminder for me to hear about too.
Toréa Rodriguez 15:23
Yeah, I think, you know, keeping in mind that there's a bit of age difference between us. So, you know, I just turned 51 this year. So, being older means that I'm going to see this more because I've had more exposure to the sun than you have, you know, and so, if I were to look back and say, okay, 25 year old self, what advice would I give myself, I think I would give myself an advice of like, go get a baseline from a dermatologist, like, just understand what the baseline is, because the sooner you can catch this stuff early, you don't have to do an excision surgery on your arm, right, and get scarred and all of that stuff. So the sooner that you can catch it, the easier it is. And then you'll know what your skin tends to present when you have cells that have turned cancerous because my family members that have had it that I talked to during this process, their spots looked completely different. Right, some of them looked like an open sore that wouldn't heal, and some of them looked like old scar tissue. And then for people of color, like, it doesn't have to be a pink spot. It can be a brown spot, or a darker brown spot. Right? So not to be confused with age spots. Yeah, right. This is where we want to use a dermatologist who's an expert that can actually that is trained and understanding well, what's the difference between a freckle and an age spot? Or what's the difference between a freckle and a basal cell carcinoma for some people, they look the same. But for a dermatologist who has a trained eye, they can really look at certain things and know right away of like, okay, we need to take a look at that, or let's use liquid nitrogen and induce the skin to grow new cells and see if it'll take care of it on its own. There's lots of different ways to manage it. But I would say that if I were to do anything over again, it would be using the expertise of a dermatologist a little bit sooner, so that I didn't have to wait for angry mole to show up.
Evie Takacs 17:26
Yeah, I like the idea of the baseline of getting like, this is what it should look like, or this is where you're starting. And then now you can see where things change. Because, again, the order that you're getting, or I'm getting, like, well,
Toréa Rodriguez 17:38
we're all getting
Evie Takacs 17:38
How long has that been there? Or yeah, you know, it's like, well, I just, I think I've had this my whole life or wait, is that is that new? So it's good to have an idea of, you know, where are you starting before you really get a lot of that sun? And yeah, so I'm really happy that you've taken this situation, which is not ideal. And you know, I'm sure brought up a lot of emotions, but you've taken it of like, okay, what's the feedback I'm getting? How can I make changes to myself? How can I use this to help other people? And yeah, because it could have been something more of like, I'm just gonna feel really sorry for myself, and I'm gonna be really upset. And not to say that you wouldn't be entitled to that because you would. But you've turned it around of like, okay, this is good feedback. And now I have a chance to do things better, and you are doing things better.
Toréa Rodriguez 18:21
Thank you. I really appreciate you mentioning that. Because I think for some people, you know, getting a diagnosis of cancer is never easy. And I'm not gonna say it's easy peasy to get even skin cancer diagnosis wasn't easy. It definitely caused me to question past actions, you know, question like, oh, gosh, should I really be covering up all the time and being afraid of the Sun? And when we recorded that sun exposure episode, I was going through this simultaneously at that time, you know, and it was interesting, because I've had to do a lot of reevaluation of like, how do I want to have a relationship with the sun and the outdoors? And am I going to let this stop me? And ultimately, what I decided is that no, I'm not going to let it stop me. But yes, I am going to have to make some changes because even if the skin is 100%, clear now like it is doesn't necessarily mean that I've got the free and clear to just like run around in the sun unprotected all the time, because of course, all those skin cells have already had exposure to the skin already, right. So it's that repeated UV exposure that can be damaging. So I do have to make some changes, I have to be a little bit realistic about it. So it's, I think for the most part, it's caused me to have even more of a balanced approach with the sun as opposed to just picking one side and you know, I don't want to be on one side. I don't want to be afraid of the sun. I want to still be able to go out and enjoy paddleboarding. But I also know that an activity like that means that I need to use sunscreen. and wear a hat and you no longer sleeved clothing to be able to stay out there longer.
Evie Takacs 20:05
Yeah, yeah. And again, that's good reminders for all of us, especially like I'm even. I'd be curious, actually, could you link some of the clothing that you do wear? Like for sun protection? In the shownotes. For someone who's like, Oh, I'd like to look into that. And I don't even know where to begin. Yeah, I think that'll be a helpful resource.
Toréa Rodriguez 20:23
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, it's nice to know that there are clothing manufacturers that do create clothing that are UV protective and keep you cool. That was the big thing that was just like, I don't want to melt in the heat with all this long sleeve clothing on, you know, but there are fabrics that are breathable, that you can still be in the sun, and it helps you be in the sun. But yes, I'll definitely link that. I'll also link some basic education on basal cell carcinoma, because it's so common, that people can peruse some of the pictures. Like I don't want to get all gross on people, but at the same time, like, Yeah, I think it's good for people to recognize that certain spots don't necessarily look like what we think skin cancer looks like, you know, I remember my mom had squamous cell skin cancer, when I was really, really little. So you know, I have very vague memories. But I remember what those spots looked like, on her arms. And my spots never looked like that. Right? So I was just like, oh, well, that it can't be cancer. It's just a mole that's angry. And sure enough, you know, dermatologist was like, Out! That's coming off now. So, yeah, everybody can be different. So I think just letting people see what that looks like, will help have awareness and help you recognize, gosh, maybe that spot maybe I should have looked at.
Evie Takacs 21:49
Yeah, I think that's important. And now, you know, we are recording this in the middle of the summer. So I'm assuming more people are in the sun more often. And more frequently, I know that I am. And so it's important to keep an eye on that. And again, just reevaluate my actions of like, maybe shouldn't wait too long to put sunscreen on. Or maybe I should take a little bit of a break and go sit under the umbrella at the pool, or maybe my hat isn't big enough for you know, whatever it might be. So,
Toréa Rodriguez 22:16
yeah, definitely have invested in a large brimmed hat. That's, it's been great to have it too, because I can feel the difference, like it shades all the way to the shoulders. And so I can really feel the difference in just the heat on my skin. So I know that I'm protecting it at least somewhat. But you know, watersports, of course, add to the complexity, because now you've got the reflection coming from underneath. So even if you are wearing a hat, you have to be careful about that. But I think that the biggest takeaway here is that if you're dealing with something that you're catching early, it's really, really, really, really treatable. And it isn't a death sentence. I will say, I think from coming from a natural approach to how I approach wellness having to do the excision surgery was less of an issue, because that was just like a physical thing. Having to do the topical chemotherapy, that was a complete like, I had to come to terms with that, because that felt very much like using some kind of... at first, I didn't understand it, really, number one, I didn't understand what that topical cream was doing. And I was making an assumption that I was going to be putting toxic stuff into the body because we think about chemotherapy with other types of cancer, like breast cancer and testicular cancer and that kind of thing as being a very toxic exposure and making people very sick during their chemo treatment. And that is very true. The type of topical chemotherapy that's used for basal cell carcinoma works in a completely different way. And so once I understood how it worked in that it was activating my own immune system that made me feel a little bit better. But I definitely had some mindset work to do to get comfortable with the idea of using a Western medical treatment, because let's face it, like Western medicine has let me down so many times in the past, that I've kind of like shunted it. And in a different call earlier today, you and I were both talking about that balance between Western medicine and more natural methods. Like sometimes we need to utilize the brilliance of Western medicine in areas that they're really really good at, in addition to all these other natural methods, so it took me a little while to find that balance, but I finally came around to it and here we are, it's all gone. So I'm happy about that.
Evie Takacs 24:40
Yeah, I can definitely see a difference in you from I remember when you first got the diagnosis because you told me and I knew that you were so upset and it was it was a lot for you and understandably so and then seeing you progress through it was like each time we talked like you just stopped bringing it up. And I, to me that was like you Well, maybe you just didn't want to talk about it. But I felt like you that was just part of the healing process for you, too of like, Yeah, this is fine, I am doing fine. This is going away, I'm doing the right thing. And it wasn't like so consuming for you. At least that was my interpretation. Maybe there was another reason why you weren't bringing it up. But to me, that felt like you were really growing and like, just embracing that this is what I have to do. This is gonna get me better. And I'm ready to move on. And so it's been good to see that with you as well of like, you know, and then again, that you haven't been hiding from the sun, you're still going out, you're still doing your outdoor stuff. Because that's, that's, that's who you are. Yeah. And so I'm glad that it hasn't taken that part of you away, either.
Toréa Rodriguez 25:38
I couldn't let it. Yeah, number one, like, that's such a core piece of my being and I thrive so much when I am outdoors that I couldn't let it. I had to find that happy medium of Okay, where can I add a little bit more balance to this so that I could approach it. But I think it's interesting, what you picked up on is the me not talking about it so much. And for me, the internal mental process that I went through from a mindset perspective is that if I was going to make a decision to take advantage of Western medicine, and use the prescribed, you know, treatment protocol, I had to get to a place where I had faith in that treatment. Because we all know the placebo effect can be a really strong and if I had no faith that that was going to work and I was going to go through the motions for six weeks, guess what probably would have happened on the other side, I probably wouldn't have healed it as well, yeah, as if I had faith in that, oh, this medication is helping my immune system do its job better. And my body has that ability to heal, then I could put all of my trust into that process. And then it just became a yeah, this is what I do. This is like taking my supplements in the morning, or this is like feeding myself nourishing food. It's just one of these things that I do. And that's when it became less of a focus topic for me to really talk about because I had already made the decision. And this is how we're going to do it. You know?
Evie Takacs 27:06
Yeah, yeah. And that's huge. And I, I just appreciate you being willing to open up and share about this on the podcast and share about your experience with it. Because I think it'll be helpful for I know, it'll be helpful for other people. And again, even just bringing in the awareness is important. So is there anything else that you wanted to mention regarding this, like something that you've learned or something important for people to consider?
Toréa Rodriguez 27:29
I think, really, it's just knowing that there is a balanced approach. And I know that we had recorded an episode that was all for sun exposure. And yes, there are downsides. And yes, some of us will get diagnosed with basal cell carcinoma. And like, that's how common it is. And when it does happen, it doesn't have to be scary. Like, that's probably the biggest takeaway is that if you can educate yourself now by you know, looking photos, or just getting yourself a little bit more acquainted with what it looks like and/or find a dermatologist so that you can get a baseline. That's going to help so much more in people's ability to prevent this kind of thing from happening, then they don't have to go through double types of treatment, actually three different types of treatment, like I did. So really, it's just I wanted to share about what was happening and be completely transparent with people that, yeah, there's going to be both sides. And we're going to see the positive side to sun exposure, and we're gonna see the downside to sun exposure. But it doesn't mean that we have to swing to one side of the pendulum and be completely freaked out by the sun and never go out in the sun that has obvious downsides, right? And it also doesn't mean that we get to, you know, skip around in the sun and dah ta da, you know, look at me, I don't need to use sun protection. It'll bite you in the ass. Like, that's just how it's gonna happen. So I guess really just the takeaway is empowerment, like, empower yourself, and don't be afraid of it. It's all figure-out-able.
Evie Takacs 28:55
Yeah, exactly, all figure-out-able and there's a good balance. And hopefully, we've, you know, drilled that in enough of like, sun exposure is really good and healthy for a lot of things. But just be very careful and be mindful about what the amount is for you. So.
Toréa Rodriguez 29:09
That's right. That's right. Cool.
Evie Takacs 29:10
Yeah. Awesome. Well, I appreciate you sharing that. Thanks, Evie. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, thank you for sharing and hopefully this is helpful for other people too.
Toréa Rodriguez 29:22
Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. If you're ready to dig deeper into your health, stop playing the Whack-a-Symptom game, start testing to get better guidance, you can find more about Toréa at torearodriguez.com and you can find Evie at holisticallyrestored.com. Want a peek into what it's like to work with us? Come join us at our Optimized Wellness Community. You can find the invitation link in the show notes below. And if you have a question for the show, you can submit your question under the podcast section of torearodriguez.com. Finally, if you found something helpful in this episode, don't forget to leave a review, hit that follow button or share it with a friend. They're gonna love that you thought of them. Until next time, see you outside!
