Parasympathetic Tools | S3E2 (E022)
Evie and Toréa share their favorite ways of activating the parasympathetic nervous system and how to build your own personal toolkit to develop nervous system resiliency and balance. There might also be an important PSA about bears!
In This Episode
Nervous System role in Chronic Illness (01:08)
Breathwork as a “gateway drug” (02:19)
Heart Rate Variability (03:38)
Sympathetic overuse and chronic illness (07:02)
Freeze as a sympathetic state (08:15)
Vagus Nerve activation (11:03)
PSA: Don;t run from bears (13:56)
Biofeedback of HRV (17:14)
Sensory tools for parasympathetic (18:24)
Birdsong & ecology as state triggers (20:16)
It’s not a 1:1 ratio (24:30)
Cold plunges (26:37)
Building your own toolkit (27:52)
Resources Mentioned
Transcript
Toréa Rodriguez 0:08
Welcome to the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. I am your host, Toréa Rodriguez. And I'm joined by the lovely co host, Evie Takacs. Both of us our Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioners and we love working with women from all over the world, through our virtual programs, helping women not only feel better, but actually achieve that vibrant, no holds barred version of themselves, they've been missing for a long time, and how we actually get there. Well, that is what this show is all about. Now, please keep in mind that this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be used as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment. And if you like what you hear today, we would love for you to hit that follow button, leave a review in Apple podcast, share with your friends, and keep coming back for more. Let's start today's adventure shall we?
Okay, so we're gonna talk about the nervous system today. I'm super excited, mainly because I think I talk about the nervous system quite often, almost all the time. Now. I think for me, the the nervous system, and paying attention to the nervous system has been a real key, I guess breakthrough both for my own healing journey and working with clients is in really recognizing that it's not just about how we manage our stress, like stress management has always been part of working with the client and working on their health. But now understanding how the nervous system operates, and really applying tools to help it operate and function better and be more resilient. That has been a key breakthrough with my clients. Evie, what are your thoughts about nervous system?
Evie Takacs 1:57
Yeah, this is something that I just have recently, I'd say in the last year realized plays a role in chronic illness. And I noticed it immediately with myself. And really what kicked it off is the breathwork seminar that I went yeah, breathwork workshop I went to April of 2020 2021 years are all confusing, now.
Toréa Rodriguez 2:18
that's right.
Evie Takacs 2:19
But just after that, in starting, you know, I was doing my homework, I was implementing breathwork. I just fell in love with it. And I just because I it was an immediate difference. And so I was hooked. And ever since then I've then that was kind of the gateway drug, if you will, to parasympathetic activity
Toréa Rodriguez 2:24
Breathwork as a gate way drug...
Evie Takacs 2:33
... leading to chronic illness. Yeah, that's kind of how I view it is that really opened up the door to, hey, wait a second, I haven't tapped into this regarding my Hashimotos. And maybe there's something to this. So that kind of got me into that. And then since then, you know, after breathwork started exploring more things, which we'll talk about kind of what our tools are. But I have noticed that the more I focus in on nervous system, and learning about it and regulating it, the better I feel overall. And it's kind of a shame that I didn't learn that sooner. Right. I mean, I know that we learn things when we learn them. But I just think of all the years that I could have been feeling better, that if I had just known a little bit more about nervous system, if I had known a little bit more about how to get into parasympathetic and what the difference is, and just even knowing that I'm living in sympathetic most of my time. So I think it's one of those what we call free medicine is once you learn how to do it, and you find out what works for you, you've got a tool for the rest of your life.
Toréa Rodriguez 3:38
Yeah, I love that about this. And I think like you, I definitely had my own gateway drug into nervous system rebalancing called heart rate variability. And we'll get into that in a minute. But I've always known that there's a nervous system, right? We were taught in grade school, high school biology that, hey, you've got a circulatory system, and you've got a nervous system, and you've got an endocrine system. But we, I think back then anyway, I don't know how it is now, because I don't know what the syllabus looks like. But I think back then, the nervous system was always thought of as the autonomous nervous system, the one that operates without us consciously doing anything. And so it was almost as if we're like, Hey, here's your nervous system that you're given, this is what you have to deal with. And there's no like way that we can interact with it or control it or modify it. And I think more recently, what we're discovering, and probably just through our continued study of the nervous system, and how it works, and how it's so intricately related into everything else, but we're starting to really understand how we can manipulate our nervous system. And there's more of a narrative of awareness in terms of the lifestyle that most Western cultures live in today most modernized cultures live in today that are driving the nervous system into a particular state that isn't inherently healthy, long term. With long term state of the sympathetic nervous system, so yeah, the way that Evie and I talked about it these days is we simplify it, of course, but we talk a lot about sympathetic versus parasympathetic. And most people know what fight or flight state is, or freeze state. So it's fight flight or freeze state. So that is the sympathetic nervous system. And then the parasympathetic is the opposite of that, or some people will use the rest and digest, it's also the side of the nervous system that's activated when we were are actively repairing tissue and healing tissue. So there's these two different modes, if you will, of the nervous system. And that's, that's really what we're talking about in terms of manipulating it. Because with the modern culture that we're in, with all the stimuli that is coming at us from all these different directions, with all the responsibilities that people have taken upon themselves, all the things happening in the world in the last couple of years, we are in almost this constant fight or flight state, which isn't exactly how it's intended to be utilized.
Evie Takacs 6:08
No, no, we're supposed to be able to turn that on right for survival, right? Like hunter gatherer days, you're out, gathering food hunting for food, and all of a sudden, there's a bear in the woods, and that bear should freak you out enough to initiate this fight or flight state. And so the idea is that you, you're not most likely not going to fight this thing. So you're gonna, you're gonna flee, and you're gonna run away, and then you get back to safety, get back to your family, and you're like, okay, I'm good, who, Okay, I'm back to safety, I'm good. And then you get back into the rest and digest the parasympathetic. Yeah, but what I found with myself, and what I see with a lot of clients, and just, I mean, people that I interact with is that we have mistakenly turned an email from a boss, a deadline, traffic, something we see on Facebook, we now interpret that as a bear in the woods. And that's creating a sympathetic state for us. And so the brain doesn't understand whether this is a real threat or not, it just knows that you feel threatened. So the brain is going to kick in this sympathetic state to protect you. But we're having this happen at inappropriate times for inappropriate stimuli.
Toréa Rodriguez 7:20
Yeah. And what I was going to say is, it's not a conscious interpretation, we didn't deliberately go out and say, Oh, that email from my boss, I'm going to treat it like, I'm running from a bear. No, it's that that's the way that the brain is interpreting it and reacting to it. And so that's the side of the nervous system that gets activated. So putting people under scans for brain activity, we can see this actually light up certain portions of the brain, when they start thinking about stressful situations with their boss, or stressful relationships, or conversations, or any of those things that you just mentioned, those are interpreted by the brain as a form of stress, an acute stress. But now for us, it's chronic, because we're in it day after day after day, all day long. And now we're activating the side of the nervous system for far longer than it was ever intended to be active. And on.
Evie Takacs 8:15
Yeah. And one thing you mentioned, which, you know, you shined a light on, for me personally, in the recent past is also freezing can be part of this response, the sympathetic response. Because I remember I was talking to you about something and I was saying, like, I just, I don't know what decision to make, or I don't know what to do. So I do nothing instead. And you're like, Oh, interesting. So you're kind of freezing. And I never thought about it that way. Because I think I was just overwhelmed with I have to do this task, I have to do that task. And I have that task. And it all felt so overwhelming that instead of doing any of it, or chipping away at it, small bits, I will just do nothing. And I would freeze but I didn't know that what I was doing was freezing. And so when you brought that to my awareness, you know, knowing what I know about the nervous system, I was like, oh, no, I'm not doing this anymore. Like I cannot be putting myself in this position. I must act or I must do something else. Because I didn't know that freezing was also another way of putting ourselves into sympathetic. So I'm much more aware of that now and much more like cognizant of, Are you freezing? Are you procrastinate? Like why are you procrastinating? What is this really doing to yourself and trying to tune in with my body in that way?
Toréa Rodriguez 9:25
Yeah. And if you think about the natural world and the biology that we have around us, there are certain animals that will literally play dead, right though this is their survival mechanism. They can't run they can't fight. So they just play dead and they freeze. Or some of them literally do freeze and indecision, right, and that's where that freeze concept comes from. But that's an activation of the sympathetic nervous system. And that's what's happening in that state is that they're, they're firing off that that sympathetic nervous system. So We wanted to talk about today, the opposite side, the parasympathetic, the one that most of us have forgotten to intentionally use, like a lot of times the parasympathetic, I love it, because it is part of the autonomous nervous system, it is going to be this stuff that happens in the background, we go to sleep at night, we don't stop breathing. Thank goodness, right? We still breathe yet. We're not conscious either. Right? So some part of our subconscious mind is operating this parasympathetic nervous system that's controlling the way that the heart beats and the way that the lungs move, and how the lymphatic system circulates the fluid in the lymphatic system. So our digestion, all of that is parasympathetic-ly activated, and we don't necessarily have to think about it. But we also want to make sure that we're not staying in the sympathetic nervous system during times of the day, we're actually not under a real threat, if that makes sense. So we wanted to focus today on the tools that we use to intentionally shift into the parasympathetic nervous system.
Evie Takacs 11:03
Yeah, in a big part of that is, essentially what we're trying to do is activate the vagus nerve. Yeah, because that's when you're activating the vagus nerve, which is a nerve that runs basically head to anus and it touches all sorts of organs and groupings in the body, that's going to activate the parasympathetic nervous system. So there are specific things to activate the vagus nerve. And there are specific things that in general will activate more parasympathetic, just because some of the ones that I've, you know, done recently, or that are kind of like out there, I'm like, Okay, well, this is definitely for the vagus nerve, even though it feels kind of weird. But I don't know, I'll just kind of share a few of my favorite right now, I said breathwork was the gateway drug for me into nervous system work, and absolutely still is. And I'm really excited for us to be doing breath work on our retreat coming up here soon. So we'll be doing some stuff there with that. And then that's it, how it started for me was simply a five minute practice every day, I would just set my timer for five minutes. And I learned different types of breath work at that workshop that I attended. And so I just picked the one that felt the best for me at the time. And I would do that for five minutes every day. And then sometimes I bumped it up to seven minutes. And then I would do it for 10 minutes. And I actually ended my workouts with breathwork. Now as a way to get myself back into parasympathetic because as I'm working out, you are putting yourself especially I'm talking about resistance training and like lifting weights, I'm putting myself in a sympathetic state on purpose. And so I want to get myself into a parasympathetic state afterwards, because I'm doing a little bit extra work to get my nervous system to calm down, just because it's been overworked for a little bit. So breathwork is a big one for me. I also, as I didn't know that this was activating the vagus nerve, but now I do humming and singing. I'm a big fan of that. I'm not good at it at all. But I'm definitely the person that if you see me driving down the highway, I will be singing, and I will be ...
Toréa Rodriguez 12:59
Belt out those tunes girl.
Evie Takacs 13:01
Yes, yes. I love it. It's an emotional release for me. And now I understand why. I mean, I had no idea why it felt so good to me before but now I get it. But even humming. Like that'll kind of rattle that vagus nerve, and that'll activate it. And that can put you into parasympathetic too. Yeah. So those are those are the things that I tend to gravitate towards, along with which I'm sure you're gonna say this too, because this is such on brand and in theme with the podcast is being outside in nature, right? Yeah. Being outside. That's a way that we can activate it and really cool things with the birds, which I hope you share as why birds can help us activate that that as well. Yeah. But those are kind of things I do on a daily basis that have become second nature to me over the past year of just incorporating them into my routine and into my daily habits. And they seem to really help keep me stable. And then I always can add things as I feel like I need them.
Toréa Rodriguez 13:56
Yeah, absolutely. So your gateway drug was breathwork. My gateway drug was learning about heart rate variability. And of course, that was my gateway drug, because it's, it's a new term, and it's sciency. And it's geeky, and it got me all interested. But heart rate variability is something that's been used in performance sports for a long period of time, it's a metric that we can measure. And what we're measuring is we're measuring the space between beats of the heart rate. So if you think about it, you see the bear, you're trying to run from the bear. And just I have to say, let's be clear. You don't want to run from bears, especially brown bears, they will catch you. So don't run from the bear, just get big. Okay, so that PSA aside, you're running from a predator and your heart is going to beat at a very consistent rate because it wants to deliver oxygen to the brain and the muscles as effectively and efficiently as possible. So that will be very consistent. And so that measure is what we're measuring. And then when we're not that way when we're in the parasympathetic, that distance between beats will vary, it's sometimes it'll be shorter, sometimes it'll be longer. And that's the variability. And that's what we're measuring with heart rate variability. And so what we know from sports performance is that we can measure heart rate variability first thing in the morning. And if you have a higher variation in the time between beats, then your body is more recovered, and it can handle maybe a larger workout or it can handle race day. For example, if it's shorter than recovery hasn't quite, you're still kind of stressed out and recovery hasn't quite gotten there. Which is why I think it's so great that you're adding breathwork after your workouts, because that's going to help your heart rate variability recover as well. And so what it was taken to the next level by a company called the Heart Math Institute, and they study all things heart related in terms of frequencies that are generated from the heart and the heart rate variability in that kind of thing. And what they've discovered is heart rate variability is a way that we can see whether or not we're in our parasympathetic state or not. And so they have tools, I think it's called the Inner Balance tool. And that tool is one of the tools that you can get instant biofeedback on your smartphone by wearing a little sensor, it goes on your ear lobe. And so you wear the sensor, and it can measure heart rate variability, and you can get real time feedback, which is different from getting a heart rate variability in the morning from a chest strap or from your aura ring, for example, this is in real time. And so you can use their Inner Balance tool and app to do breath work, for example, shift your nervous system into parasympathetic and see the results on a screen like that was just like, Wow, that's amazing. And then I get all excited, and it shifts right back to sympathetic, you know, so it's just like, that's what introduced me to this whole thing of it being a state. So we're shifting into parasympathetic and shifting out of it into sympathetic and vice versa. And then if we can train our body to shift into the parasympathetic state more often, that is what allows us to have this resiliency back and forth. So that was my gateway drug. Some of my favorite tools are breathwork, of course, is is a tool that I use all the things that we've talked about on this podcast, in terms of being in nature, and presence, and the grounding, all of those things, activate the parasympathetic. Some of my other favorite things, real simple one, it's called Legs Up The Wall, but it's kind of like a post workout stretch or something that you might encounter in a yoga studio. But you literally put your legs up the wall, and you put your butt on the baseboard, and you just lie there in that L shape for a few minutes. And that will activate parasympathetic. And then tapping or EFT Emotional Freedom Technique is also a really good way to shift the nervous system. So you can use tapping, like on the thymus gland on the chest, for example, you can just tap on the chest, and that will cause your voice to go funny. But just tapping on the chest like that can get your nervous system to go into parasympathetic state, as well as like tapping on your shoulders with your arms crossed, like you can use some of these they're sensory tools, if you will, different kinds of sensory tools that you can use on your body to shift it into parasympathetic state. So those are some of my favorites, of course, mindfulness meditation, all of those things can also fall into the parasympathetic activation.
Evie Takacs 18:34
In one thing that we both love about being out in nature is that when you listen to birdsong, right, you listen to the birds singing and humming and doing what they're doing, that actually activates the parasympathetic nervous system as well. Because we found out that from an evolutionary standpoint, birds would only do that chirping, sing and, you know, be happy and all that when it was safe to do so. But if there was like, a threat, or if it was unsafe, or if there was a predator or something, birds wouldn't do that. So our bodies and our nervous systems have learned that if you hear birds, and that means that it's safe, and so our body is already working in that way, then because it recognizes like, oh, birds chirping, that means that everything is okay, everything's fine. There's no big threat going on. There's no crisis. So we're going to be relaxed. And I just love that. And that's one of the big reasons why I don't listen to anything when I do go on my morning walk for circadian rhythm support. It's not that I knew this before. It's not like I knew the birds were going to help me. It's just, I learned this as I went. But what I did recognize is that if I listened to something, then I mean my brain is flooded with thoughts and noise all day long anyways, and so I wanted to start my day off as quiet as possible to kind of let my thoughts run to let whatever may come up, come up, and to be in a quiet state because I'm always listening to something or hearing something. And so that was one of the big reasons why I decided to not listen to a podcast or music while I'm out for my morning walk. But now I get it because I've been experiencing this for years of the quiet, relaxed state that I'm in when I'm walking in the morning. And now I understand that, okay, these birds are playing a role into that.
Toréa Rodriguez 20:16
Yeah, it's really cool, because we've mentioned this in another episode. And I remember looking for the study article that was talking about how they studied this in the human nervous system. But what I also found were a bunch of studies where they were studying the birds. And I don't know what techniques they were using, because I didn't read into the studies all that much. But what they're noticing is that certain types of birdsong can activate parasympathetic nervous system in the birds as well. So it was interesting to understand that there's a little bit related to the the type of bird song but yes, it's fascinating to really think about how much our natural environment can drive that parasympathetic state and be a cue for us, which I'm just going to go out on a limb and throw out a hypotheses that the way that we are living in our culture and being in these cities with a lot of active activities and noises and being disconnected basically, from nature. The more that we do it is contributing to this issue that we see with people where they are activating sympathetic all the time. And it's becoming more and more chronic, if you are not chronic, but I guess pandemic, if you will, to steal another word. But we're really starting to see an issue with this with just humans in general.
Evie Takacs 21:41
Yep. Yeah, I mean, you can just see it, once you learn the signs of what it physically looks like to be in sympathetic versus parasympathetic, you can notice it and other people too, right? Or you notice it just in their responses of hey, like, that person seems to be really on edge all the time, or that person seems to always be vigilant, or seems to always have something that's stressing them out. Or they, they always walk with their hands clenched. I've seen that in people and like, their hands are always clenched, or like, you might clench your butt, as silly as that sounds. But like if you're wound up tight like that, and that's a sympathetic state. And also, this is something that I've been doing personally is trying to get my body to get into parasympathetic more even through workouts. Like I said, I've been doing breath work after I left, because what I noticed is that I was always having some sort of like injury, like I was always tight or sore, or I couldn't move or twist the right way. And when your body tightens up like that, and it gets stiff, that is manifestation of sympathetic state. And so that's why I knew I had to make some changes. And although it was uncomfortable, because I liked the way I was doing things, it wasn't working for me anymore. So I had to make that change.
Toréa Rodriguez 22:48
Yeah, yeah, that's good. It's interesting that you mentioned that the body gets stiff, and that, you know, it's clenched in that way. And a lot of times, you know, when we start working with a client, and we start talking to them, and usually this happens in the first call with with the client. And, you know, we're kind of doing what's called an intake process, where we're just gathering information data about what's been happening for them. What I noticed right away is how, usually that client, and I'll just say that person, there's no space for rest, it is literally wake up in the morning, Energizer Bunny your way through the entire day, and then go to bed exhausted, don't sleep very well. And there's nothing, it's all sympathetic nervous system. And when I then see their resulting lab work, right, it's not surprising that they're not getting a bunch of cortisol anymore, because their body is burnt out of producing cortisol. And so we can actually see the biological ramifications of a nervous system that's been on overdrive for far too long. And I think a lot of the reasons why they stay in that state is because like anything else, right, when we're building neurological pathways for any of our habits, or anything else, right, the neurons that fire together are the ones that wire together. So you know, when that happens, their nervous system actually learns to stay in a sympathetic state. And it's very hard and difficult in the beginning to even induce a parasympathetic state, like sometimes two minutes of breath work is really hard for a client. And that's because they are really fighting against those those neurological pathways that have been paved in pretty deep.
Evie Takacs 22:49
Yeah, in one thing, just so that people aren't confused by this in specific to breath work. It's not a one to one ratio of if you've been stressed out for eight hours, you don't need eight hours of breath work.
Toréa Rodriguez 24:42
Oh, thank you
Evie Takacs 24:42
like, you might just need to do five. Or, you know, that was my misinterpretation from the beginning is I was like, well shoot, like I'm stressed. You know, I was stressed a lot at that point. And when I first started learning about it, and then the person who was leading the workshop said like, this is not a one to one ratio, like if you are stressed out for eight hours at work, you don't need to do eight hours of breath work, you can just do five minutes, see how that feels? Maybe you do five minutes in the morning, five minutes in the afternoon, right? And so I would not take that as like, what's the point in trying? Because I'm stressed out for such a long time during the day, there can be little blips in the day and little moments that you take in that still is going to be effective.
Toréa Rodriguez 25:23
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. Because it's your right. It's not a one to one ratio, it's not the amount of time it doesn't mean that oh, well, I've been working really hard for four hours, now I need to go take a nap for four hours. No, it's not. It doesn't have to be that way. It's so effective. And I think the reason why it's effective is because it's not about the amount of time that we're spending in the state, it's about the ability of being able to shift. So just doing two minutes, five minutes of breath, work shifts you into parasympathetic. And then you can go back into sympathetic, because most of our waking hours are going to require the sympathetic nervous system to do those kinds of activities, but being able to shift into parasympathetic and get that fluidity, if you will, it's almost like learning a second language, where in the beginning, you're not going to be doing a ton of it. And it's going to be harder to think about the words that you need to try and recall to be able to communicate what you're trying to communicate. But then as you practice it, it becomes easier and easier and easier. And then all of a sudden, you can say hello, and goodbye. And how are you in the second language? And it's easy to do. And I think that's how it kind of works with the sympathetic, parasympathetic nervous system of being able to switch back and forth.
Evie Takacs 26:36
And you know, what has helped? I'm sure I'm gonna speak for both of us, you know, what has helped both of us learn to shift a lot faster into that? Cold plunges!
Toréa Rodriguez 26:45
Oh, yay, cold plunges I knew they were going to come up.
Evie Takacs 26:49
Yeah, I mean, we've talked about it on we know, we've recorded episodes on that. And we've talked about it in a few. But, you know, we've one particular episode, we've talked exclusively about cold exposure, and we've mentioned it on the Health in Motion podcast. Yeah. But we are purposefully putting ourselves into a sympathetic state by getting in a tub of cold water. But then what we're immediately doing is learning to breathe through it. So we're getting ourselves into a parasympathetic state. And the more that we've done, that we're teaching ourselves that this can be done pretty much in a 30 second time span here. Yeah, right. Like after 30 seconds, I'm breathing pretty normally again. And so again, that's one of the benefits of it. So if you haven't listened to that episode, make sure you do that. It's really beneficial. But again, it's just we're weaving in and out of that. And that's perfect example of what you just said, of we are going to be in sympathetic state during the day, but how can we sprinkle in parasympathetic? And what are skills and tools that we can develop to get ourselves in and out of that more efficiently?
Toréa Rodriguez 27:52
Yeah, I think it's so great that you mentioned that, because when we talk about all these different ways of activating parasympathetic, you know, sometimes it feels like, ooh, that's hard, or that takes a lot of time out of my day, you know, so for example, you've got your cold plunge at your house, and it's not an automatic thing. So that means that you've got to plan to go get ice, and then you gotta go get the ice, and then you gotta dump it in. And then you know, all those things can happen. And so the more complex it is, right, or the harder it is the least likely, we're going to do it as humans, because we like to do the easy things. First, typically. And so having those extra types of things that you can do like the legs up the wall, it's so simple. And I can do it nearly anywhere. If I'm next to a building or a wall somewhere, having things like that in our tool bag, to be able to keep that flexibility going on between the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. I think that's really what we're talking about here is like, you can take our list of parasympathetic activating activities, you don't have to do them all. And pick the ones that work best for you and have one that will work quickly and in a pinch, and then have one that you really like to do maybe once a week, like a cold plunge, or whatever that happens to be for you. But I think that's what's kind of cool about having all these different methodologies of being able to build in that flexibility, if you will, but the nervous system, definitely cool. So we wanted to give you guys that primer for different types of things that we've used, there are a lot more and if you know of more, and you want to share them, please like reach out, send us a message, we'll repost it on social media so other people can learn. And if you want an immersive experience, we're going to say that our retreat is pretty much designed to build you those skill set and tools to really work with your nervous system all throughout the four days of the retreat, including maybe some cold plunge experience as well. So you're gonna get a little bit of everything. So if you've got some interest in that the link is in the show notes below. So yeah, thanks, everybody for this, this little chat about the nervous system. We appreciate it it and anything else, Evie?
Evie Takacs 30:01
No. Hopefully it was helpful. Let us know what you're going to start to do and how are you going to implement getting yourself into parasympathetic?
Toréa Rodriguez 30:07
Yeah. Fantastic.
Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. If you're ready to dig deeper into your health, stop playing the Whack-a-Symptom game, start testing to get better guidance, you can find more about Toréa at torearodriguez.com and you can find Evie at holisticallyrestored.com. Want a peek into what it's like to work with us? Come join us at our Optimized Wellness Community. You can find the invitation link in the show notes below. And if you have a question for the show, you can submit your question under the podcast section of torearodriguez.com. Finally, if you found something helpful in this episode, don't forget to leave a review, hit that follow button or share it with a friend. They're gonna love that you thought of them. Until next time, see you outside!
