The Missing Wellness Piece: Self-Compassion | S4E8 (E038)
Happy New Year friends!
We’re so excited to welcome you back to the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast and we’re starting off 2023 with compassion.
Compassion for ourselves!
This week we’re joined by Jessica Brown. She’s a clinical nutritionist with over 25 years of experience, a Self-Compassion teacher, and author of The Loving Diet, a mind-body book supporting those with autoimmune disease. Jessica’s helped thousands of people heal physically, emotionally, psychologically, and spirituality, and she’s here to offer help to YOU.
If you’re in the depths of despair in your healthcare journey, if you struggle with disordered eating, or if you just find it hard to be kind to yourself (so many of us do!), then you’ll want to listen in. Come find out why Jessica states ‘love is the medicine and your heart is the pharmacy’!
In This Episode
Jessica’s background with self-compassion personally & professionally (1:35)
The differences between compassion, empathy, & sympathy (2:58)
Empathic fatigue (5:20)
The 3 components of self compassion (6:54)
Abundance mindset v. lack mindset in your healthcare journey (8:52)
The link between self compassion and the immune system (10:56)
What is mindful eating? What is intuitive eating? (13:26)
Jessica’s clinical experience with self-compassion (19:17)
Torea’s experience with orthorexia & food paranoia (22:11)
Her advice for those struggling with disordered eating (24:18)
How YOU can work with Jessica (25:25)
Resources Mentioned
Free Nervous System Reset Challenge starts 16 January. Use code WOLF to get 1 month of FREE access to the Optimized Wellness Community which is where the NSR takes place.
Deep Transformation enrollment is OPEN! We start on 30 January and we’d love to have you!
Purchase Jessica’s book, The Loving Diet
Enroll in Jessica’s class: Self Compassion for Disordered Eating
Join the Optimized Wellness Community
Submit your question for the show!
Transcript
Toréa Rodriguez 0:08
Welcome to the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. I am your host, Toréa Rodriguez. And I’m joined by the lovely co host, Evie Takacs. Both of us are Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioners and we love working with women from all over the world, through our virtual programs, helping women not only feel better, but actually achieve that vibrant, no holds barred version of themselves, they’ve been missing for a long time, and how we actually get there. Well, that is what this show is all about. Now, please keep in mind that this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be used as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment. And if you like what you hear today, we would love for you to hit that follow button, leave a review in Apple podcast, share with your friends, and keep coming back for more. Let’s start today’s adventure shall we?
Toréa Rodriguez 1:08
Welcome back, everybody to wildly optimized wellness today, Evie and I are thrilled to have Jessica Brown here to talk about self compassion and how it integrates into health and wellness and why it's so important. And so Jessica, thank you so much for coming back and recording with us on the podcast, I know you were involved with helping me teach Deep Transformation this last round, which was awesome. So thank you, thank you for all of that. But tell us a little bit about you and how you got involved with self compassion, because you and I met each other as functional medicine practitioners, and we geek out a lot on stole tasks and all the biochemistry and all that stuff. But how did that kind of segue into integrating the self compassion piece.
Jessica Brown 1:53
So there's the professional piece of how it got integrated. And then the personal piece, the personal pieces, that we've been integrating it into my professional practice for about 10 years. But the reason why I knew about self compassion was I had tragedy strike my own life, and I didn't have the skills to cope with what I was facing. And I thought that I did, because I was a longtime meditator and you know, had been in therapy for years and years. And when I found myself in this massive place of despair, I realized that I did not know how to be kind to myself. And it turned out to be the real big game changer for my own personal journey. And then I was able to switch it over to help others because there's a lot of despair in health care. They're scary diagnoses, there's how do I manage this chronic issue, there's living in the world that really capitalizes in financial wealth, and not so much into happiness and abundance. So it turned out that it was it's very well needed. And it's very well researched,
Toréa Rodriguez 2:56
Which is really, really cool. So I know you had mentioned in the workshop that you came in taught a little bit of the differences between compassion and empathy and sympathy. And it really got me to thinking about Brene Brown, she's got a graphic where she talks about the difference between sympathy and empathy. So let's talk about all three and what are the distinctions between those three different states of being?
Jessica Brown 3:20
Well, if we had to look at the difference between, for instance, empathy and compassion. Compassion is a practice where I'm with suffering, how can I help? So it goes further than empathy. Empathy, when we practice empathy, does something neuro chemically where it lights up the pain centers in our brain because it activates pain inside of ourselves as we see pain in others. Compassion takes it one step further, though, and it says, I see your suffering, what can I do to help and when we practice compassion, it actually lights up the reward centers in the brain. So compassion actually completes not only a whole emotional cycle, but compassion fuels itself, because it lights up reward centers of the brain. Empathy does not even though we hear a lot in medicine, compassion, fatigue, and hospitals, especially during COVID. But what that really was, it was empathy fatigue, because compassion does not fatigue neurochemically we know it.
Toréa Rodriguez 4:23
Yeah, that's so fascinating, because I know that for a long time, I've identified as somebody who's highly empathic, I developed that skill when I was very, very young, and in a sense, it felt kind of like a superpower because I could kind of sense like, what is somebody experiencing right now from an emotional standpoint? However, what went along with it almost always was feeling very fatigued after that, like recognizing how would I say I used to say like, some people are quote, unquote, energy vampires, but really, that was me getting fully fatigued by being in a state of feeling somebody else's emotions all the time and so that's what you're describing with this empathy, lighting up the Pain Center set the brain, correct?
Jessica Brown 5:05
Yes. Because the definition of compassion is to suffer together or to be with suffering, so that we can be present with suffering and love still persists in the state of suffering. Yeah, what you're talking about, that was such a great point. Toréa. Empathic fatigue is a very real thing, which is why I think on social media, we see how we feel like we need to protect ourselves as empaths. But when we practice compassion, there's no need to protect, because it's again, it's like a battery that keeps recharging itself.
Toréa Rodriguez 5:39
Very cool.
Evie Takacs 5:39
I also really enjoy that distinction, because again, I would say that I can be very empathetic. And after hearing about it, when you came and taught the workshop, and then hearing about it now, I'm remembering and thinking back to all these moments in my life, where I've had to practice empathy with somebody that I was maybe in conflict with or needed me or I wanted to be there for them. Yes, I would feel fatigued, but I almost felt like there was no conclusion or solution. And that's why when you say self compassion is all in compassion in general brings up the point of I see you I feel this pain, I'm here with you. How can I help? I think the "How can I help?" is really a life album for me of like, that's where the solution comes in. Because it's one thing to say, I understand this is painful, I can feel that I see that in you. And then to also then sometimes I'm feel like there's like a stopping point of like, now what? And that's where compassion sounds like it picks up the pieces of now, how can I help you? How can we work on this together? And so I love that you made that distinction, because it almost takes pressure off of me. When I think about in my own life of like, okay, I can be empathetic, but that's actually not going to be a solution that's just going to be something that maybe brings comfort to someone else. But how do we actually work past whatever is going on. And that's where that compassion piece comes in.
Jessica Brown 6:54
Exactly. So, self compassion is comprised of three components, Mindfulness, so having that presence to be with all of the things that might be hurting, Common Humanity, which is that we are in a human body, so we suffer, and then Self Kindness, which is how can we be kind to ourselves, even if we can't change the situation, even if we can't change what's happening, it's like a direct acknowledgment that we're in pain. And we can also be kind to ourselves, while we are in pain, giving ourselves a break, saying, it's Gosh, it is hard to be a human being, I'm doing the best that I can. So it's a really cool model that I feel like touches all the points that causes us to feel hopelessness a lot, when we're having a human experience.
Toréa Rodriguez 7:38
So good. And it's so good to acknowledge the human experience, because all three of us work with clients who have either a health issue or know that they want to improve their health in some way. And when we go about to do that, inevitably, there's going to be a setback, or a roadblock, or some kind of bump in the road, or they're gonna feel like they're going to have some regression. And this is where I see this skill set really coming into play. Because it can be the spot where people want to just throw in the towel, or it can be the spot where somebody beats them up, themselves up, right. And that's where the self critic comes in. And this is the place where I think I've observed over the years of working with so many different clients that they hit this spot. And this spot is the place where they have the most struggle and looking for solutions as a clinician of trying to help them through like, how can we help them through that rough patches, this practice of self compassion is one of the easiest ways to do it, and teach somebody how to utilize those skills themselves? I think. So I'm excited about the work that you're doing. For sure.
Jessica Brown 8:49
Thanks. Well, yeah, when you say looking for solutions. So, you know, you were to give an example of somebody who is being challenged with a massive health issue, engagement and working on that health issue, if you do it from a lack place, versus an abundance place that can make all the difference in the world. And so that's that part of why are we doing it from an inner critic place? looking, you know, so we were to consider somebody maybe who got diagnosed with heart disease, you know, the next thing might be, you're so stupid, you look at all those times that you chose that food that you knew was bad for you and now look where you are, you deserve everything you're getting, and now you have to work really hard to get out of it. That's like a very critical voice. The thing about self compassion is it is very engaging, but it's engaging from an abundance place like Wow, I feel scared. I'm acknowledging that I feel scared and I'm acknowledging that there were times when I didn't take action and I should have and you know what, I'm going to forgive myself for that because everybody messes up and you are under a lot of pressure. Look at all the things you are handling in your life. So even as I'm saying that does it feels a little diff Right. And so compassion does not mean that we shirk responsibility doesn't mean that we're not completely engaged in a care because, well, self compassion is a care model. So we're very engaged in the care model, but we're engaged in it from a place of abundance and kindness and soothing ourselves rather than a critical place. And it's better for our immune system when we do that.
Toréa Rodriguez 10:21
Say a little bit more about the immune system and better for our immune system. What do you mean by it's better for our immune system, or for using a care model from a place of abundance versus a place of lack? Because in this space, right, this holistic wellness space, there is a lot of coaching that occurs or directives that occurred, or protocols that occur that are very much focused in lack, like an elimination diet, for example, taking away foods, taking away certain things that were causing comfort to a patient, and now they're struggling with it. So I'm curious about this link between the self compassion and the immune system itself? Can you dive into that a little bit?
Jessica Brown 11:04
Well, when we practice compassion, it helps balance the autonomic nervous system, okay. And because it lights up those reward centers of the brain, it helps balance neuro chemicals like oxytocin and dopamine. And we want those things balanced when we're going in to handle something that's really challenging, like a chronic illness that does require often for us to have a diet that supports that. But again, it comes back into this idea of Am I doing it from a lack place? Or am I doing it from an abundance place?
Toréa Rodriguez 11:37
Yeah. And do you know, Jessica, because I know that you've done a program at Stanford and you you have a lot of insight into the research of this work? Is there a direct effect on certain antibodies may be in the immune system like Secretory IGA? Are there any studies that study compassion and those kinds of antibodies,
Jessica Brown 11:57
I don't I mean, I'm, I'm guessing there happen. But off the top of my head, I can't pull out any research in my ocurring card catalog.
Toréa Rodriguez 12:07
Every reminds me of when reading Joe Dispenza. His book, I think it's the one of becoming superhuman or something like that. He talks about gratitude and how gratitude can raise Secretory IgA, so I didn't, I just made the assumption that if we can do that, with holding gratitude in our heart that's similar. It's not the same, but it's a very similar emotion, to compassion.
Jessica Brown 12:30
Yes. And we want to make sure that we also aren't forcing it. And bypassing our feelings that we're having in order to get to the gratitude place. And that it's a to a lot of people want to just skip over. Or they do this bypassing like, they don't want to feel the pain, I get it. You don't want to feel the pain, you just want to be in gratitude. But really, when you start unpacking everything, there's a lot of fear, perhaps resentment, perhaps pain, that self compassion is useful to do as an intermediary place before we get to gratitude. And that's also why I like self compassion for things like intuitive eating and mindful eating, because neither of those ways of eating inherently increase trust in the body. And that's what we need to be able to intuitively eat and get to that gratitude place.
Toréa Rodriguez 13:24
Let's take a step back for a second. For anybody who's listening to the podcast that doesn't know what is mindful eating? What is intuitive eating? What do we mean by that?
Jessica Brown 13:34
Well, Intuitive Eating is trusting. Well, it has principles associated with it. So throwing out the food rules, not having food, police being able to use mindfulness as a aspect of it. So Intuitive Eating is really nourishing your body without rules. Got it. Got it. Mindful eating is a little bit different than intuitive eating, mindful eating is really just being very present with yourself as you are eating.
Evie Takacs 14:02
I really appreciate what you were saying about working through certain tough situations with that more compassionate, you know, model of care versus I don't know if you use the word judgment, but my mind went to judgment. Because it is very easy when there's something difficult regarding our health or any other aspect of our life, where we will try to judge our way to a solution or to getting through it versus using that self compassion because I think I am someone who I do think that there's time to tough it out. You know, yeah, some things just need to be toughed out and, you know, I have that example. And I grew up with those beliefs. But then I also have the beliefs and the examples of like, sometimes we do need to apply the self compassion and the emotional component of that. So I appreciate that because I think in today's culture, and what we see at least what I'm seeing in terms of my, you know, social media and just the people that are around me physically to I do tend to get into like, well, there is no time for compassion. We just have to white knuckle our way through because there's more things to be done or this happens to a lot of fun. people. And so I appreciate you having that like saying that of, we can't get to that solution or we can't get past these things with the judgment, we have to do it through self compassion, even though it might take longer. And it's going to probably bring up a lot of other painful emotions in the meantime. But that's really the true way to get through it. So that I think that was really helpful and powerful for me. And I hope for listeners as well, because I do think the white knuckling and just kind of judging our way through, well, why can't I eat better? I know better than this is definitely a default for a lot of people.
Jessica Brown 15:29
Yeah. And those judgments that you're talking about are often related to beliefs that we hold true that aren't actually true. But they have we believed that we've believed to them for so long, and our culture really promotes believing those things for so long that they're unconsciously driven all the time. And so then that brings up this whole question of how can you change unconscious beliefs that are informing the constant judgments that we have, that are present with us as we're trying to mindfully and intuitively eat and heal? And be kind, if that makes sense? Yeah.
Evie Takacs 16:07
So when we say it like that, I'm like, why do we go about it that way? It's like, it's exhausting to try and tackle it that way.
Jessica Brown 16:15
Right? A lot of it is, is that we're just really invested in not deeply caring for the part of us that's messing up. That's not getting it right. I'll give you an example. I just went to Europe, and I live in Marin County, California. And Marin County, California is a place that took COVID really seriously. And so I've spent the last two years living in a county where a lot of people wear masks even still. And I went to Europe, and nobody was wearing masks, and my nervous system was so jacked up where I was in crowds. And, you know, I didn't, I was not prepared for going into a place. And so what did I do? I immediately started judging myself, you know, I immediately started saying, why can't you just relax, you're in Europe, you're on vacation. And yet, what I found myself doing was retreating of like, Oh, my God, I'm feeling overwhelmed. What if I get sick, I'm in a foreign country. And so I sat down every day, and I started practicing self compassion, which is, Jessica, it's actually okay, that you're feeling nervous about this, it's actually okay, that your nervous system is really dysregulated, you have been in a place where people are doing it a little bit different. So you'll notice that when people don't practice self compassion, the first thing that they do is they make themselves wrong, and how they're handling it wrong. Especially when we look at how people are handling chronic disease, oh, you're missing something, don't forget your you need your nervous system, but to be on high alert, because if you miss one thing, you could die, and then you're a failure. So these kinds of models that we're talking about are happening to us all the time. Yeah. That's such a beautiful example. Because deeply uncomfortable for a lot of my time in Europe without not knowing like what was happening or.
Toréa Rodriguez 18:01
And I'm sorry that you even had to have the experience. But what a wonderful example of how this can affect us with any part of our lives. It doesn't have to just be with health and wellness, yes, we get into a space where we become uncomfortable. And the immediate reaction that I have typically is the self critic comes forward. And then I have to consciously work at bringing in the self compassion, because that was a skill that I learned after I learned being a critic, right? So it's really fascinating to see how you not only went into that situation, but then were able to apply it so that you could at least enjoy some of your holiday vacation in Europe, which I hope you had a great time.
Jessica Brown 18:45
It because the judgment became optional. So my husband wasn't having any issues at all. And so what happened is I looked at him and I said, I'm really struggling. I'm really struggling with the people coughing around me and the no mask wearing. I'm really, really struggling. I'm not prepared for this. And I stopped right there. And I did not judge myself. And that was the key. That's the key with compassion, which I made myself feel okay in the in this place of struggle, which is definitely very competing thing to do.
Toréa Rodriguez 19:16
Yeah. So I would love to understand a little bit what you've seen clinically with your clients and patients in terms of utilizing this kind of care model. And then I really would love to hear a little bit of insight about what you learned at Stanford because you just completed the program, correct?
Jessica Brown 19:34
I did, yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 19:35
Okay, great. So, first, tell us what you're seeing clinically. And then also tell us your experience at Stanford.
Jessica Brown 19:41
Clinically, I'm seeing a lot of freedom. Compassion goes beyond good and bad. It goes beyond roles. And a lot of ways of eating have rules, even if they say that they don't. And I love compassion because it says I'm going to support myself no matter what I'm choosing, even if I mess up, even if it doesn't work out, even if I need to switch gears. And so people experience the freedom to be able to support themselves for figuring out what feels right for them. Because sometimes they can't eat tomatoes, sometimes they cannot eat eggs. And so they want to be feel okay about it. They don't want to over manage, but they want to feel okay about their decisions. So clinically, I'm seeing a lot of people restoring their guts more quickly. I'm seeing people being able to have more flexibility with their choices and support themselves when they try something new and it doesn't work out. So that's what I'm seeing clinically.
Toréa Rodriguez 20:40
That's really cool.
Jessica Brown 20:41
It's very, very cool. A lot of people working with orthorexia and disordered eating, making bigger strides than they have in their life, just because they're approaching it from a different way.
Toréa Rodriguez 20:52
Yeah.
Jessica Brown 20:52
What I learned in Stanford is that compassion has pretty major ripple effects. Most of the people who were in the program, or people who worked in hospitals have there's a lot of therapists and medical doctors, and I'm seeing a massive shift in how we approach caring for one another, and a corporate model. I saw that over and over and over again, and the people who are willing to do research to show how that works. That's really cool. Phenomenal. Yeah, that's
Evie Takacs 21:26
very promising. I would say that's promising for where, you know, modern medicine and where, you know, Western medicine is going hopefully, of like looking at a patient in that way too. Versus just, you know, what most of us are accustomed to have a pill for every ill. And that's just how it goes. So that's actually really promising to know, there were those types of professionals in that program.
Jessica Brown 21:45
At least three or four people that I saw in my program, developing compassion centers within sat inside hospitals. So I was like, wow, that that is really just really warmed my heart and the research.
Toréa Rodriguez 22:00
Yeah, so cool.
Jessica Brown 22:01
That's coming forward to
Toréa Rodriguez 22:03
So good to see that we're starting to have a shift in the way that we're approaching it because you had brought up a term orthorexia. Not everybody understands what orthorexia is. But I've seen it very commonly as somebody who comes into health to improve their health. And they want to achieve because they want to follow the rules. So they follow every single rule to like dot every eye and every T, and they tried to get themselves to this idea of perfection. And then what happens in the mind when it turns into orthorexia. How would you describe it, Jessica?
Jessica Brown 22:37
Well, with orthorexia say, striving for health, at any cost. And what I'm seeing is a really big dysregulation, and what I call the inner eater, and so the inner either often gets an unequal burden to manage safety that is not manageable long term for anybody. And so people's nervous systems get incredibly dysregulated high amounts of anxiety, high amounts often of binge eating and, and so it has to get worked out in some way. And that's usually how it gets worked out is Extreme Nervous System dysregulation. Yeah, I see most often binge eating,
Toréa Rodriguez 23:17
Binge eating. I think even in my own journey, I experienced a little bit of that orthorexia. When I recognized that I was afraid of certain foods I had become afraid of tomatoes. Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't like I was having bad dreams about being attacked by killer tomatoes. But it was definitely I was afraid to eat a tomato because I was afraid of what it might do to me. And that was inducing a bit of like food paranoia, so to speak. And so that is kind of like tipping into the iceberg, in my opinion of the orthorexia piece.
Jessica Brown 23:49
Well, especially if you're told that a food is not safe for you to eat. Yeah. And so there's, I feel like everybody kind of went into the world of restrictive eating or restrictive diets with good intentions. And I mean, I have a friend right now who has cancer who's doing the carnivore diet and thriving. So again, it all comes down to the relationship that you have with the way that you're eating. Yep.
Toréa Rodriguez 24:17
Very interesting. And so how are you applying this learning that you learned at Stanford? And how is it changing your programs? And how can people find out more about learning, self compassion? Or what if they identify as somebody who has like disordered eating behaviors? What can they do about it?
Jessica Brown 24:35
Well, I think talking to a licensed mental health professionals really helpful to help you understand if it's an issue or not. So that's the first thing that you can do is have somebody help you understand, if you're dysregulated by it, how it's informing my practice is I'm seeing that self compassion is that deep care model that helps people feel Good about their life and their choices. And again, it's really nourishing to the nervous system. So there's not very many classes or instructors out there doing exactly what I'm doing. And I'm finding that self compassion is just people really respond to it, because they're not doing it wrong. They're just adding in deep care for themselves to gain a deeper understanding of why they do what they do.
Toréa Rodriguez 25:24
That's cool. So are you offering courses? Can people work with you? Like, how do they find out about you?
Jessica Brown 25:30
So they cango to the loving diet, and yes, I am offering courses, I'm probably going to switch my class from six weeks to eight weeks. So we meet once a week for eight weeks, and it's journaling and meditations and very small group work. And they can just go to the loving diet and sign up to get to get on the waiting list. And I'm forming all my January classes right now.
Toréa Rodriguez 25:52
That's exciting. That's super exciting. Any other questions that you have for Jessica, or comments on?
Evie Takacs 25:59
I don't have any questions, I do want to let you know that I was actually gifted the loving diet like the book. And that's actually sitting right across from me on my bookshelf in my office. And that's on my list to read. And the more that I talk to you in the more than I hear you repeat the same things over and over again, it's just more of a thing of this is the next part for me, I think personally with where I need to go, because I have a lot of the foodstuff and the gut stuff like all the like chemical sciency part. But this, I think, is something that I need to uplevel on. So I appreciate you sharing this. And again, for people like me in terms of like trying to white knuckle their way through or use judgment to just work through this is very refreshing of like, well, what could happen if you actually approach it with curiosity and compassion to yourself, because there really is just this little girl in me that's just looking for, you know, to be loved in this way. And so I appreciate you sharing in that way. And it's very helpful for us to hear that.
Jessica Brown 26:56
I say often that love is the medicine and your heart is the pharmacy and everything that you need to do, the great work that you're going to be doing is already built inside of you. It's not It's so we can try to go outside and we often do outside of ourselves. And that this kind of deep care is a lean in, not to lean out. And so that's really good for everyone to sort of remember as we end this,
Evie Takacs 27:25
I love it. Yes, absolutely. That's very helpful.
Toréa Rodriguez 27:27
Love is the medicine in your heart is the pharmacy. That's a good one. Thank you, Jessica, so much for coming on and talking to us and telling us a little bit more in educating the listeners about self compassion and how useful it is, and how, how approachable it can be in the clinic. I think sometimes we separate a lot, what's going on in the mind or the emotions from the biology focus of it. And bringing the two together, I've seen huge leaps and bounds in terms of results with my clients and doing that with my practice, too. So thank you so so much, and Happy New Year, everybody.
Jessica Brown 28:03
Thank you. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
Toréa Rodriguez 28:10
Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. If you’re ready to dig deeper into your health, stop playing the Whack-a-Symptom game, start testing to get better guidance, you can find more about Toréa at torearodriguez.com and you can find Evie at holisticallyrestored.com. Want a peek into what it’s like to work with us? Come join us at our Optimized Wellness Community. You can find the invitation link in the show notes below. And if you have a question for the show, you can submit your question under the podcast section of torearodriguez.com. Finally, if you found something helpful in this episode, don’t forget to leave a review, hit that follow button or share it with a friend. They’re gonna love that you thought of them. Until next time, see you outside!
