Harness the Power of Mycology | S4E2 (E032)
Are you ready to love fungi?
It’s just a matter of time after listening to our amazing guest, Willis Mitchell! Willis brings his 14 years of experience within the holistic wellness spectrum to the show today to discuss all things fungi. If you’ve ever wondered the best way to eat mushrooms, what the difference is between ALL the varieties, or what’s up with psilocybin, you won’t want to miss today’s episode. Willis is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to teaching us how we can start to integrate the healing properties within fungi into our daily lives. Plus, he’s sharing all the details on his business, The Loving Fungi: how it started (5 months alone in the wilderness??), how it’s going, and where you can find his adaptogenic products. Come nerd out with us in this fun fungi discussion!
In This Episode
Willis’ background (2:38)
When mushrooms became medicine for Willis (4:09)
Fungi as Herpes treatment (4:43)
What is a functional mushroom? (11:45)
The cancer-fighting properties of Turkey Tail & Oyster mushrooms (13:00)
Performance enhancing v. immune system building (15:49)
Wild foraging v. cultivation farms v. home grown (20:25)
Loving Fungi history and product offering (28:51)
What we’ve tried and liked from Loving Fungi (31:00)
What is Psilocybin? (37:07)
Psilocybin microdosing v. macrodosing (38:36)
How to find your own practitioner to work with (45:27)
Future of fungi in the U.S. (48:00)
Resources Mentioned
Willis’ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelovingfungi/?hl=en
Willis’ Website: http://thelovingfungi.com
Fantastic Fungi book: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Fantastic-Fungi/Louie-Schwartzberg/Fantastic-Fungi/9781683837046
Michael Pollan’s Netflix series: https://www.netflix.com/title/80229847
Michael Pollan’s Book, How to Change Your Mind https://michaelpollan.com/books/how-to-change-your-mind/
Shop the Wellness Optimizing Journal
Join the Optimized Wellness Community
Submit your question for the show!
Transcript
Toréa Rodriguez 0:00
I don't know about you, but the Black Friday sales have already started. And now you don't even know which Friday is Black Friday. But if you're looking for a very special gift for a friend, family member or loved one, and you know that they might want to put wellness at the top of their list, and I'm going to suggest to my wellness optimizing journal, this is a perfect companion to anybody who is wanting to optimize or better their own health and wellness. It's beautifully illustrated, and it's got lots of guidance that you can customize for your particular needs or their particular needs. Need to get yourself one. So the link to purchase is in the show notes, I promise you. It's a really special gift Welcome to the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. I am your host, Toréa Rodriguez. And I’m joined by the lovely co host, Evie Takacs. Both of us are Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioners and we love working with women from all over the world, through our virtual programs, helping women not only feel better, but actually achieve that vibrant, no holds barred version of themselves, they’ve been missing for a long time, and how we actually get there. Well, that is what this show is all about. Now, please keep in mind that this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be used as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment. And if you like what you hear today, we would love for you to hit that follow button, leave a review in Apple podcast, share with your friends, and keep coming back for more. Let’s start today’s adventure shall we?
Toréa Rodriguez 1:50
Okay, so this week, we are joined by Willis Mistral of The Loving Fungi, and we're really excited. This really kind of came about from Fungi Fest in Central Oregon. So they're the mushroom festival. Yeah, that was so much fun. So, Willis, welcome to the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast, we love to jam about things that are kind of at that intersection between the wilderness and wellness. And that's what this podcast is focused on, and when we met you, like How perfect would that be to have this conversation? So I guess really, I'd just love to hear a little bit about your backstory, like what got you interested in mycology? And what led to you building the business? Loving fungi?
Willis Mistral 2:38
Yeah, great questions. Well, you know, I have about 14 years of history and like the holistic wellness spectrum. And so I've always been intrigued with like betterment of myself, whether that's physically, mentally, spiritually, it's all connected. Anyways,
Toréa Rodriguez 2:53
It is.
Willis Mistral 2:54
Go figure.
Toréa Rodriguez 2:54
We talk about all that stuff here. So yeah, you're in a good spot.
Willis Mistral 2:57
Sweet. I'm at home. Yeah, and so for this stuff, really, I spent about five months alone in the mountains of sisters kind of deciding and figuring out what happiness meant to me. Right?
Toréa Rodriguez 3:09
Beautiful.
Willis Mistral 3:10
And what I came up with the best thing that, you know, after a lot of debate over Oh, that people is it things is it, you know, jobs have had all of those, they've all been fleeting, you know, what really holds that feeling of happiness. And I found that it was doing what I was passionate about. And then the second part of this was that if I could do what I was passionate about, in a way that was of service to others, and then it was like, a never ending cycle of like, feeling good. Because I feel good doing it. People feel good receiving it.
Toréa Rodriguez 3:38
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 3:39
So that was like the basis of like, moving forward in my life from there. And at the time, I was just picking mushrooms and learning about them. And I couldn't stop. And they were so I mean, there's so much information there. Like at the heart of me, I realized I'm just a really big nerd. And I finally found a subject where it's like, this is never ending in all all areas of the spectrum is right.
Toréa Rodriguez 4:00
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 4:01
So I started picking them. I was cooking them, eating them, talking about them to everybody, like a maniac. And, you know, got to the point where I figured out, Oh, these are medicine to like really high medicine. Actually, I had a close friend, my buddy Chris, who actually gave me my first like, introduction to a dual extraction tincture taught me how to do that. And it was just like, Okay, that's it. This is what I'm doing. And I was receiving this medicine myself feeling it deeply, feeling the changes within myself. And that was huge. But then when it came to working with people, and they were asking me for this medicine, actually, I feel like that the biggest moment that really shifted it, whereas like this is all I'm going to do was I had a friend who reached out to me, and you know, I've been talking a lot about like how powerful these antiviral properties are antibacterial properties, that they even have medicine inside them that kill STDs, right. And so the herpes simplex virus one and two, it's a big one, right? Yeah, she reached out to me she had a friend who was dealing with type two, and had a lot of flare ups like once a week type of thing. I reached out to him started talking with him we got down to business with okay, this is much more than physical, we understood like the mental association to it, and then nutritional guidance, and then, you know, made a mixture of medicine for him with three different mushrooms.
Toréa Rodriguez 5:22
Okay.
Willis Mistral 5:23
I left town, I came back 30 Days Later heard from him again. And he was astounded that he did not have a single flare up in a month. You know, he attributed also to the, you know, emotional work that he was doing, but also the medicine that was helping him right move through this. And I was like, That's it. You know, this is this is everything. It's not just me experiencing this now. It's somebody having like, a drastic, amazing healing experience with this medicine with something that has been told that Oh, you're gonna live with this rest of your life. This is how it's gonna be.
Toréa Rodriguez 5:51
Yeah, yeah.
Willis Mistral 5:53
Yeah. Does that answer your question?
Toréa Rodriguez 5:54
Well, yeah, it answered my question. But it like opened up so many more questions that I want to ask. So this is perfect.
Evie Takacs 6:00
I know, now there's like more.
Toréa Rodriguez 6:02
So the first question I'll ask is, What prompted you to decide to do five months alone in the sisters wilderness in Oregon, Central Oregon.
Willis Mistral 6:13
Oh, so we'll go back a little further than so for years prior, I was with my partner at the time in New York, and we were deciding where to go. And there was an option to go back to Colorado. That's where I lived for five years. She really wanted to go there. And in my head, all I could hear was Oregon, Oregon. And I didn't know a single person. I didn't have work lined up. There was no part of me that was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So I went to Colorado.
Toréa Rodriguez 6:38
The logic absent, absent logic.
Willis Mistral 6:41
Yeah you know,
Toréa Rodriguez 6:41
but it's there.
Willis Mistral 6:42
Listen to this instead of this, right? And so went to Colorado. And immediately when I got there like this, isn't it, like, I'm a different person, this place is different. You know, it no longer has medicine for me. So I left, I went to California, I started doing some work where I felt, and I see this as a repetitive thing in my life, where if I'm just working for money, you know, I get it. And then what?
Toréa Rodriguez 7:07
Right.
Willis Mistral 7:08
You know, am I truly fulfilled or happy in it. And so this California thing was another period of life that was like that. And so this was about a two and a half year period in California, where, when it came to the end of this time, I was like, Okay, I'm, I'm not happy in my relationship. You know, it's somebody who loves me dearly that, you know, I'm not in love with. I'm not happy with my work. Right? I'm not happy in this place, even though it's beautiful. It's gorgeous. I live in a magnificent town, right on Russian River. Right on the coast, it was beautiful. All of these things that like in your head would be like, Oh, that that guy's happy. He's got everything, right. And no, none of it was fulfilling. And so I ended all of those things. I got rid of most of my belongings. I bought a camper. And I took off in the Oregon not knowing anybody.
Toréa Rodriguez 7:53
Love it.
Willis Mistral 7:54
Just kind of listening finally, to that voice from four years prior. Right?
Toréa Rodriguez 7:57
I love it.
Evie Takacs 7:58
That's amazing.
Toréa Rodriguez 7:59
We talk a lot on the podcast about being in the presence of nature and being in that sense of awe, and how that can be life changing. And it sounds like this five months that you spent by yourself, was that for you, but it allowed you to discover mushrooms in a way that kind of led you to a new passion, is that true?
Willis Mistral 8:19
Totally Yeah, I feel like for me and just like, understanding like, I'm into esoteric knowledge, so astrology, numerology, all these things, you know, where I gain the most is when I have time alone to contemplate. And, you know, when I'm in the forest, or like completely alone, where there's no outside sources influencing me, that's where I get my greatest AHA is my greatest downloads, you know, I consider time in the forest picking mushrooms as like church or temple, I have a lot of people that asked me to take them out on my guided stuff. And I'm just like, No, every time it's, you know, the time that I do have for myself, is like really sacred. And so being out there, it's like, it's super important, because that's where I'm like, boom ideas, new seasoning, or whatever it is new medicine. You know, it's just, it's fabulous. It's magical. And I don't know if it's just me, or if anybody else who took the time to really, you know, be alone for this period of time and be in nature, you know, would receive the same things, but I feel like there's magic there for everybody.
Toréa Rodriguez 9:18
Well, I think it's something that we both feel that there is magic in nature and spending that time alone is also pretty magical. I describe it as a way to kind of get in touch with our subconscious when we give ourselves the time of being able to be alone with our own thoughts and not being influenced by anybody else. But was it that experience that you had out in the forest that you discovered mushrooms and got you enticed into picking them and eating them in the end? Was it more from a culinary standpoint, like was that your entry into functional mushrooms and different kinds of mushrooms? Is it culinary or was it something else?
Willis Mistral 9:56
Yeah, culinary. I mean, so for me it was again, thank you Chris. I love you, you know wonderful friend who took me out my first time picking mushrooms and I mean, it was just like, it was magic. You know, once you start to see them, you pick up on that pattern or whatever it is pattern recognition that's deep ingrained in us from the times when we were neanderthals or berry pickers. Right, just like, takes hold. And then you see them everywhere. And then they start to show you themselves, right. And then there's a spirit to that too, right. Like mushrooms are little trickster, right coyote medicine. And like, I resonate with that, I feel like, you know, the silliness is important in delivering like, any type of healing message, right, having a little fun and levity. And so their medicine is that to me, as well. And so, all of these levels, I started connecting with this kind of intelligence, right. And I just fell in love with it. But it was food initially, it was, you know, chanterelles, boletes, lobsters, oysters, and then it was game on, you know, I also dedicated that year to really kind of being alone. And so having that much time to be alone, I spent so much time in nature. It was it was fantastic.
**Toréa Rodriguez 11:05 ** Beautiful.
Willis Mistral 11:05
You know, I think of that time and like, I'm almost envious, you know, to have that much time and be alone. Yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 11:11
Yep. I think for me, like, I've always loved them from a culinary standpoint, and just adding flavor and umami to to meals. The thing that really kind of like exploded, my knowledge and fascination with mushrooms was reading the book Mycelium Running by Paul Stamets number of years ago. And just understanding the massive network that fungi have across the planet was just kind of mind blowing at that point. I think it's kind of unraveled from there. What is a functional mushroom? Can we kind of move away from some of the culinary piece and talk about what is now being known as functional mushrooms? And you mentioned some of the properties that mushrooms have. Let's kind of dig into some of that a little bit, if you don't mind.
Willis Mistral 11:58
Yeah, so functional is just a fun term that people use because they can't say things or medicine, you know, the FDA approval type of stuff. So what is a functional mushroom? I would say every single one of them is, right. I mean, even if you look at like morels, for example, I mean, I'm pretty sure they have the most protein of any, you know, source and square inch of material on the world. Isn't that amazing?
Toréa Rodriguez 12:22
Wow.
Willis Mistral 12:22
You know,
Toréa Rodriguez 12:23
That's amazing!
Willis Mistral 12:24
It's fabulous. So eat morels, if you can find them.
Toréa Rodriguez 12:26
Yes.
Willis Mistral 12:29
But yeah, you know, functional is medicinal to me. And a lot of these mushrooms are highly medicinal, some more than others like Turkey Tail. For example, I consider that one of the most medicinal mushrooms on the planet. It's also one of the most abundant. Isn't that interesting? That the most medicinal mushroom on Earth is also one of the most abundant found in all continents.
Evie Takacs 12:49
That is really interesting.
Toréa Rodriguez 12:50
So fascinating.
Willis Mistral 12:51
Yeah. And so there's almost like some some intelligence here that, you know, interesting.
Toréa Rodriguez 12:57
Yeah. Yeah, very interesting. And when you say it's one of the most functional or one that's really important, what kind of property is just Turkey Tail have specifically that you are liking so much.
Willis Mistral 13:10
So you know, in particular, it's one that I highly recommend for women. It has medicine inside of it that specifically target what could be cancerous and tumor cells in the breast in the cervix and gets rid of them. Fabulous, just something to take semi regularly. It has numerous medicinal benefits as anti cancer, antiviral, antibacterial, antifungal, anti inflammatory. Did I miss any? It has a lot of benefits. And so you know, each each mushroom can target different like, bacteria, different viruses different you know, et cetera, et cetera, toxins, right. And so this this mushroom has the most that I've studied. Yeah, the most packed into one. That's amazing. Yeah, it's totally amazing. Yeah, so just a fabulous one to find make some tea you want to, you know, with all mushrooms to here's a pro tip cook them, you know, they have a southern membrane called chitin. That's like a hard woody thing. And it's very difficult for our liver to digest. Okay?
Toréa Rodriguez 14:10
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 14:11
And so cook all of your mushrooms Always.
Toréa Rodriguez 14:13
Always. Okay, good. Good to know.
Willis Mistral 14:15
Yeah, stop eating those white button ones too they don't do anything for it's like, you can just chew on cardboard, like get some oysters or shiitakes.
Evie Takacs 14:21
And you know, it's such a shame because those are the ones that are like in stores, like most stores, but you have to really search or it's like a rarity to see these actual, like, truly medicinal ones that have all these benefits. Just the plain standard ones are stored here, like
Willis Mistral 14:36
Oysters, amazing anti cancer properties, right? Shiitake is actually one of the mushrooms that has medicine in it that kills the herpes simplex virus one and two. So I mean, you know, just they're right next to the button mushrooms. Just spend a little extra money and, you know, inoculate yourself with some healing right?
Toréa Rodriguez 14:57
It's amazing to the white button mushrooms were right, those are the ones that are sliced up raw in salads. And that's usually people's first introduction to mushrooms. And so they make the assumption of like, oh, I'll just eat it raw and put it in a salad. And but you're right like that chitin material is so, so, so dense that it's extremely hard to digest. And I also know that when we cook the mushrooms, right, that's changing the protein structure that's allowing those the chitin wall to break down so that we can get access to those compounds that are so medicinal. Yeah. As a practitioner who uses functional mushrooms with your clients, because you do practitioner in addition to selling products, right? That's right. And so when you're working with a client, do you have you probably have this wonderful encyclopedia in your brain? So of course, I'm going to try and pick it real quick. But do you have like certain categories of mushrooms that you use for performance enhancement versus immune system building? Or, like, I'm sure that you've got these categories? How do you go about figuring out what you would use for somebody?
Willis Mistral 16:05
Fabulous question. So first, there's the area of study and just understanding like, Okay, this is the science of this thing. This is what it affects. Having that list on hand in my head is fabulous. But the other part of this is, do I believe that my brain has the highest intelligence in the known and unknown universe? Absolutely not. And so I use a process to tap into what I consider an intelligence greater than my mind that knows what's best for me and the client, right. And I believe that access point is actually my body. Right? Because it's pulling my consciousness down out of my head into my body, I'm actually listening, instead of thinking, right, the hamster wheel of, of questions of fear of the past or anxiety of the future. And then when I'm moving my body, its presence. Okay, so I teach a form of body testing or muscle testing. And, you know, on the quantum level, if you want to go into the sciency, part of this quantum entaglement.
Toréa Rodriguez 16:55
Yeah we'll go into the quantum stuff, yeah, totally.
Willis Mistral 16:57
Right. So this kind of backs up my my theory on this is that, you know, there's no difference between the particles that make up you and me. And in fact, there's no part of us it's disconnected.
Toréa Rodriguez 17:07
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 17:07
Right. And so finding a method to tap into this intelligence that exists between us, right? Fabulous. So what I do, it's pretty easy. I hold questions in my fist, I put them right at my heart, I ask them there. And I'm standing, I asked the question, and my heart powerful place to ask a question, and then bring it down to just in front of my bellybutton center in Chi Gong, that's called our dantian. It's our lifeforce energy center. And so asking it my heart bringing down to my stomach, and if my stomach moves towards what's in my hand, that's a yes. If it moves away from it, that's a no. Pretty simple,
Toréa Rodriguez 17:40
That's amazing. Yeah, amazing way to use intuition in that way.
Willis Mistral 17:45
The more you use this, the stronger it gets, the more you use this less time we're spending in our head. And the more time we're spending deep in our body listening, this is faith, this is knowing this is synchronicity. This is flow, right. And so, you know, when we put that message out to God, the universe higher self that, hey, I'm gonna communicate with you in this way, for this person, for myself, whatever it is, and this is how I want you to answer me, you better believe you get a response. And that's powerful.
Toréa Rodriguez 18:12
Super powerful.
Willis Mistral 18:13
And that's moving through life in a different way. Because, you know, What has my mind in all this amazing intelligence and intellect, you know, really brought to me all my life? Is it happiness is a peace, you know, is it serenity? No. And so why do we continue living like this?
Toréa Rodriguez 18:31
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 18:31
You know, this is an opportunity to kind of just slow down and listen and move through life and what I consider a better way.
Toréa Rodriguez 18:37
And that's beautiful. Because you know, Evie and I spend a lot of time with our clients, teaching them how to trust their own intuition again, because I think for a lot of us, we get conditioned out of that into the logic brain into the, like, I need to think about this, or I need to get other people's opinions about it. And that's all very logical, you know, functioning in the brain, but it disconnects us from the body completely. So you know, when you're working with a client, you're using that method of intuition that you've developed to understand which compounds work best for that client's needs. And I'm imagining that somebody could self develop these skills in terms of what do I need right now Turkey Tail, or do I need some lion's mane? Like.
Willis Mistral 19:22
That's right,
Toréa Rodriguez 19:23
Yeah, you can definitely use this kind of intuition for that.
Willis Mistral 19:26
I teach this to every client because it's like, well, you can call me every day and ask me, right?
Toréa Rodriguez 19:32
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 19:32
But then I'm have to charge it because I'm a busy boy, I can't do this. And, you know, the other part of this is this is empowering ourselves, right? It's taking our power back away from any outside authority. I did air quotes for the people listening, you know, and moving it back to the internal right because really my body, how can anybody outside of me know what's better for it than itself? Right? And so finding a way to speak and listen, right? It's an communicate so powerful. And not only this, but also like understanding this medicine, right? The plants, the herbs, the mushrooms of the planet. And understanding that 90% of pharmaceuticals are derived from these things, this is empowering as well, because we take our power back, and we no longer have to rely on outside sources to tell us when we're healthy when we're sick and how to get better. Right?
Toréa Rodriguez 20:21
Yeah. So cool. So cool. What's the difference between wild foraging, because you talk a lot about spending time in the forest and doing wild foraging versus what we see now or like mushroom cultivation farms, or even those blocks that we can cultivate at home? What's the difference between those types of mushrooms? And why would you prefer one over the other?
Willis Mistral 20:44
Well, what's the difference between a tomato grown underneath? Bulb? Right and a tomato grown in pristine elements outside with the sun? Right?
Toréa Rodriguez 20:54
Well, Big Ag would tell you it's the exact same. Yeah.
Willis Mistral 20:56
So yeah, you know, I mean, I think that's, that's a pretty simple symbolism right there. However, I will say that, with the growing demands and needs of the community that is understanding that these things are high medicine, you know, it's going to take, you know, different ways of producing these, because right now, we're looking at, you know, old growth forests in the United States, like, cannot support the entire country, the entire world, right. So, you know, this is also a message to everybody of the importance of understanding those amazing ecosystems where these things originate. Right?
Toréa Rodriguez 21:31
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 21:31
And taking care of what areas that we can that are local to us, right?
Toréa Rodriguez 21:36
Yeah. So it's, it's really a great message that you're talking about right now, which is, mushrooms have become very, very popular. And at the time of this recording, we just passed national mushroom day, which is now a thing, right, and what I've noticed is that, especially in the health and wellness space, there's a huge growth of products that have different kinds of extracts of Turkey Tail, and Chaga, and lion's mane and quarter stops, and all of these things, yet, we're still disconnected from where these things are coming from. And you just mentioned, like most of these highly medicinal mushrooms rely on the ecology of the old growth forests, and those right now are threatened. So there's an environmental component to the mushroom craze, too, that we need to be cognizant of.
Willis Mistral 22:25
Totally. Yeah, and, you know, just understanding how it's all connected. You know, we are divinely connected to these beans, there's receptors specifically made for them inside of our brains inside of our bodies, right? They have, I mean, they've been around probably longer for us, but are definitely longer than us, you know, building up these polysaccharides like antibodies that that we would consider, you know, that we can rely on us, but it takes understanding that divine connection and nurturing it.
Toréa Rodriguez 22:57
Yeah.
Willis Mistral 22:57
And being the protectors that we used to be.
Toréa Rodriguez 23:00
Yeah. And so when people are looking at where they're sourcing this stuff, is it? Is it safe to say that some cultivation practices are decent? Or, you know, have we seen that kind of like, we see this with the bastardization of the rest of our food supply? Like you mentioned, that tomato grown under the lamp indoors kind of thing, as opposed to being outside in the full spectrum son and getting the nutrients from the soil? You know, is there a way that we can find that balance so that we're not putting more strain on the old growth forest resources, for example. Totally, you know, is there a way to do that?
Willis Mistral 23:35
Totally. And I mean, that's where, you know, 90 plus percent of stuff that's coming from, is grown, you know, absolutely. And even a high percentage of that isn't even fruiting bodies. It's gonna be mycelium, with rice and grain mixed in which, you know, there's studies that have proven that it's, you know, just as medicinal as the fruiting bodies, you know, being inside the United States and having a business, you know, especially a large business that's providing a lot of medicine for a lot of people, you know, to create fruiting bodies, for all of them. It's, it takes more time, it takes more effort, it's more expensive. So, you know, I feel, you know, there's a place for everything in this movement. Yeah, right, there's going to be people who find me who find other people that are smaller that can like provide them with stuff from the forest or stuff that's like, fruiting bodies grown by themselves, you know, I just feel like energy is going to flow into all of those spaces. And now that consciousness is opening up to this, like, it really isn't a big way in the past few years. It's been amazing. I mean, I remember when fantastic fungi came out on Amazon a year ago. And you know, I had to bat people away that wanted to talk to me about these things that were so excited. You know, it's so this movement is huge. Sorry, it just keeps growing. So yeah, and I feel like it'll just naturally grow in that way. Yeah. And I don't think any of it's bad, right? stuff growing on grain and rice substrate, still fabulous medicine.
Toréa Rodriguez 24:57
Yeah. Let's back up for a second for live stars who don't really know that different terms, what is the difference between the fruiting body what is mycelium? And I thought it was all just fungus.
Willis Mistral 25:10
Yeah. So how these things kind of work is, you know, there's mycelial ones. So a mycelium network is like a one cell thick, looks like a root like a vein, right? That runs along the ground, until it hits a similar Spore, right. And when those two hit and come together, and the temperature is right, it's the right season, there's the right moisture. That's when the fruiting body shoots up. And from the fruiting body, is where the spores go out into the wind and can go all over the ground and start the process all over again.
Toréa Rodriguez 25:41
And the fruiting body is what we think of as the thing that we get in a store. That is, that's got the classic mushroom shape, right? Whatever that shape is, because there are so many different shapes.
Willis Mistral 25:51
There are a lot of wierd ones
Toréa Rodriguez 25:52
You gotta be careful about that classic mushroom cap look.
Willis Mistral 25:55
The classic phallic one, I get it. Yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 25:59
So there's that too. But there's also this network underground, too. And so truly, what's fascinating to me about fungi, right, is that they use this network underground to communicate that other organisms in that same ecosystem use the same network to communicate. So we now know that trees will communicate to each other using the mycelial network, which I just, that just blows my mind and makes me super excited.
Willis Mistral 26:23
Fascinating.
Toréa Rodriguez 26:24
Then there's in the spores are like how they are breeding, so to speak, or how they're propagating, we as humans tend to just go for the fruiting body, which is what you were explaining, right? It's like when we're looking for culinary mushrooms, or, you know, the medicine that we are getting from these mushrooms, we're going after the fruiting body, mostly, but you're also saying that in the mycelial, that certain types have the same properties. Is that right?
Willis Mistral 26:50
Yeah, and so like, if you're gonna grow reishi, you do it with a mass of some substrate, like rice grain, okay. And you'd inoculate it with the spores of, let's say, Turkey Tail. And so the mycelium will grow, it'll fill the bag, that bag, we're finding out actually has some similar and medicinal properties. Some people think just as strong or stronger. It's, you know, I think it's really open to interpretation. And then the fruiting body is what comes off of that. Right.
Toréa Rodriguez 27:22
Okay.
*Willis Mistral 27:22
And so, you know, what we're eating is always the fruiting body. Yeah, I would not go down into the dirt and grab a handful of mycelium. That doesn't seem too appetizing, although might be really good for you know,
Toréa Rodriguez 27:36
A whole different type of restaurant is popping up in my mind.
Willis Mistral 27:39
That's right.
Toréa Rodriguez 27:39
Okay.
Willis Mistral 27:41
But it is fascinating, you know, every step we take, you know, there's information being sent through the earth to the plants around us, right, yeah. And so, you know, this is where the science is starting to meet up with the spirit of this divine connection that we have with everything around us in the forest. You know, the mycelium creates forests, it creates meadows, you know, mushrooms are the reason that when trees fall over that we don't just have a stacked up, you know, big area of dead trees, like they break everything down to the base elements that life can start again. So they are life death, rebirth. I mean, you know, the all that is, right, yeah. And you get into stuff like the psychoactive side of this stuff, too. With psilocybin. It's like, that is the spirit of that medicine as well. Is life death, rebirth, right. And viewing everything. Yeah, medicine, of sensitivity of opening of revealing of understanding. Right? Yeah, it's interesting how they all kind of play this role for us of decomposition, so that new life can occur. And so how does that, you know, translate to like, the emotional and the mental side for us as well, when we get into the more of the psychoactive stuff?
Toréa Rodriguez 28:47
Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely get into that in a few minutes. Loving Fungi is your company. Where did it started? And what are you doing today? And what kinds of product offerings do you have for people?
Willis Mistral 28:59
Yeah, great question. So you know, it started pretty much when I started making medicine. And you know, the tinctures and capsules are a big part of what I do. Yes, that's more of the one on one like with consultations and stuff like that. The foodstuffs, well, once I figured out was good medicine, I was like, Well, I want to make this taste good. I want to drink this. And so I think I first started off with a Reishi Chaga and Turkey Tail drink that is now my drinking chocolate, you know, as a cacao beverage that
Toréa Rodriguez 29:26
Love it.
Willis Mistral 29:27
Thank you. Yeah, I spend a lot of time on just cooking it for myself, and then made it for friends. And then, you know, I got invited to this, like Sufi gathering. And there, they wanted me to be in charge of the drinks. And so I made the drink there for them. And they're like, where do we get this? And I'm like, I just make it you know, and they're like, You should package this in my okay, you know, and so I ended up in Bend somehow at my friend's vegan restaurant, and I was like, Hey, you guys should start offering this drink to people. It's really good. You know, I'll show you how to make it. You can just sell I don't care. And they're like, Well, no, you need to bottle this and you should get some labels made I'm like, oh, okay, you know, so I'm just like I'm responding, you know, and like, you also understand now like after understanding my human design, which is, you know, esoteric knowledge. I'm love that to life. Yeah. So I'm a little, little generator making things that I'm called to right. And so it just started there. And so I had a line of three drinks. You know, there was a chocolate one, there was a chai, and then there was a lion's mane beverage, and that's where it all kind of started. Right now what I'm offering is the drinking chocolate that everybody loves. I can't make enough of this stuff.
Toréa Rodriguez 30:35
I bet not.
Willis Mistral 30:36
Powder blend. Right The Lion's Breath, the coffee alternative also very popular. I have three mushroom seasonings with porcine and shiitake oysters. I have two granolas and I have two flavors of ghee one is porcine and one is Merle. I think that's all I have right now. Yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 30:53
Oh my gosh, it's so amazing.
Evie Takacs 30:55
Yeah, I mean, I'm thankful that I met you at the mushroom festival. And I was visiting Toréa in Oregon. And you know, I tried the drinking chocolate. I was like, This is really good. And I told her that with other ones that are like this other similar brands. This isn't overpowering like cacao flavor, where sometimes I get that where I'm like, this is a little too cacao. This is a little too, you know, a little much. This is like smooth enough. And so I've really been enjoying it. And then I also got the granola. I got the what is it? The banana? The chunk?
Willis Mistral 31:23
The chonkey?
Evie Takacs 31:25
Yeah, the chonkey Yeah, so I've been munching on that throughout the week. And I love that too. So I if anyone's listening and wants to try it. This was my first time trying it. And yeah,
Willis Mistral 31:34
I wanted to make more of like, kind of like spice chocolate drink. So like Mexican spice without the Cayenne almost. But yeah, you know, I make all this stuff for myself first and I'm kind of picky on what I put in my mouth. And you know, want it to taste good. And and so that's the idea behind this is that it tastes good. And it's medicine. Right? There's Reishi Chaga in Turkey taill powder on the granola. It's in the drinking chocolate as well. And then there's six mushrooms and four plants in the coffee alternative. And then you know the the tasty tasty is with the seasonings and the ghee with porcinis and are on such Yeah. So thank you.
Toréa Rodriguez 32:10
Yeah, they're, they're all lovely. I love the lion's breath. I use that in the mornings. And that's a really yummy coffee alternative. Or if you need the caffeine, dump it in your coffee and it makes your coffee better. So yeah, I mean, we were really loving it. So now do you have a full like co-packing facility? Like how big is this? Are you literally packing the jars yourself right now? Like, where are you in that phase of business development?
Willis Mistral 32:37
Great question.
Toréa Rodriguez 32:37
Because this is gonna get bigger.
Willis Mistral 32:38
Yeah, totally. So the drinks, like last year at the markets, the drinks I was. So to make the drinks, I cooked stuff down for like four days, right? Makes sense to do that every single week for a year. So by the end of that I was pretty burnout. So I'm not even offering the bottle drinks right now. You know, I love to get to a place where this is just kind of packed for me. Yeah. And maybe that will happen sooner than later. But right now it's me, a small team, a few friends that come and help out every week making stuff and I'm I'm selling out of stuff, even at this point, right, just with the markets. So it seems like expansion is inevitable. I've been really kind of stubborn about this, you know, not wanting to do a website and things like that. But I also understand this is the way of the world and so who am I to keep people from experiencing what I consider really high medicine, you know, and to receive this message, you know, I feel like an intermediary for the forest for mushrooms. And you know, what a beautiful opportunity. I have to speak for them.
Toréa Rodriguez 33:39
Yeah, so cool. I was gonna ask you, you know, kind of what's the difference between Loving Fungi and maybe a larger, more well known brand, like Four Sigmatic like what's, what's the difference behind your products versus something like that?
Willis Mistral 33:53
Well, I guess we're all uniquely different, right? And so the energy that I put out and into the work that I do, will naturally attract the people that are resonant with that. That's how I feel. I think it's fabulous that companies like Four Sigmatic and Stanford's company, and all of those exists, they really paved the way for people like me. And so I have a great level of appreciation for everybody who's come before me.
Toréa Rodriguez 34:17
Yeah, super cool.
Evie Takacs 34:19
One thing I will say is, in terms of like Four Sigmatic versus Loving Fungi is you're like, Oh, I've been kind of resistant against this growth. And all that is people also. I mean, I think also the people that are gravitating towards you that want to buy from you. Like they'd rather put the money in and put the effort in, or maybe wait a little longer to get their shipment from a local person who's really doing this and has a personal story behind it. So there's that perspective too. Because when I'm looking at something like Four Sigmatic or you it's like well, I'm gonna go with you because you actually have this history with it, and you have this true appreciation of it and I don't care. It might be maybe a different price point or maybe I'm not getting the exact same thing Four Sigmatic would give. So there's that perspective to keep to Have, you're also, like you said, attracting your type of customers. And I think they're just out there waiting for that website to come up. And they'll know like, oh, there's this guy, and you know, Oregon that is doing this. And he's like, doing small batches of, and he's doing markets. And that's how he started. And I just think those stories really resonate with a lot of people. And those are the most likely types of customers do.
Willis Mistral 35:19
Great reflection. And it's actually I'm actually thinking about this today, because people do they find me somehow and like, I'm only on Instagram right now. And they seek me out and like, and seek down my stuff. And I'm like, I don't know that I really do that with anybody's others, you know, anybody else's stuff. And so I'm like, Okay, I guess this is a bigger deal than I thought it was. And I should really, you know, make this available to more people. So I'm working on it. And, you know, I also want to keep the integrity of what I do you know, what I mean, with the medicine that I work with, I don't feel called to get to the point where I'm working with, you know, less than the quality of products that I am right now. Yeah, you know, and so, however, that steers me, I'm just gonna keep following that, you know, and listening, right?
Toréa Rodriguez 36:03
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful, because I think there is this part of the law of attraction, right, we're attracting the kind of people that we want to be in service towards. And if we can have that self awareness of what it is like what our internal state is, right, then we can start to attract that stuff without it being in this like, I'm going to expand this to be Amazon size, so that anybody can get their mushrooms whenever they want, you know, didn't prime delivery and all of that stuff. Like, there's, there's some kind of special nests that you bring to the table, which I think is part of, you know, why we wanted to have you on the podcast and why your products are so unique in that way. Because there are, let's face it, there are a lot of like mushroom cookouts and mushroom extracts that you can get in powdered mushrooms and in this, that and the other, but the way that you're putting them together, and what you're combining them with shows the intentionality, so to speak in your products, and that's something that we've picked up on. So beautiful, I think a lot of other people are going to find that too. I would love to dig into we kind of alluded to it a little bit before but dig into psilocybin like, what is this magic that has become known as psilocybin or psilocybin? And, you know, you alluded to the psychoactive compounds more as a like, spiritual piece. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with mushrooms in this way? And how you work with clients in that way?
Willis Mistral 37:33
Of course, yeah, I guess I've had a pretty colorful background, literally and figuratively, with this medicine, you know, with spending time kind of just having a great time when I was younger, music and stuff like that, a lot of times just in the woods with friends into moving in my, you know, more previous years, like in the last like six years, seven years of more like sitting with a bit of intention and ceremony. And then for the last like, you know, four and a half years, you know, helping people in certain ways with information around like the micro dosing regimens. Yeah. And so understanding the medicine and the large the macro, into the micro, and having a lifetime of this has been really powerful, life changing for me, you know, I see all my friends that I grew up with, that were equally as interested in using this medicine as being like some of the more heart centered, balanced, beautiful people in my life. Yeah. And so just from like, a retrospect kind of view of this and like, oh, this stuff works like that. You know,
Toréa Rodriguez 38:36
Can you speak a little bit about, you know, what's the difference between micro dosing and macro dosing? And quite a bit? Are there two different purposes? Yeah, but listeners may not know the term. So, you know, in terms of micro dosing, micro dosing, what's the difference? And what's the unique purpose of each?
Willis Mistral 38:55
So, you know, we've had a really beautiful, rich history with this medicine for centuries that we're now kind of coming back to and understanding. And so the macro dose, you know, larger doses can be like, you know, what, some people say, Well, 20 years of therapy, and one night, you know, that's a lot. I don't know, if you've ever been to one therapy session, that can be pretty intense, right? So 20 years of therapy one night, fabulous. However, there's also 20 years of real time integration work that go with 20 years of therapy, right? And so that's where microdosing kind of shows up as being this, we integrate as we go type of medicine, because this isn't something we take every single day, right? This is like, everybody has their own method. You know, I encourage people to body test for these things. You know, this is taking days off in between to integrate everything that we've learned, right, while we move through it, you know, journaling can be fabulous for this as well. So big difference, you know, sometimes we go through traumas in this life, right? Especially in those younger years, zero to 14, that's when our nervous system has been set up to respond to stimuli in a certain way and we can keep Responding the same way our entire lives, you know, kind of numbing ourselves with drugs and alcohol, sex and screentime, whatever it is, right. But this is kind of like the blueprint of our lives is set up at this point, right, like our notion of self worth of masculinity, femininity, how relationships work, all there. And so, you know, sensitivity is a different thing to everybody. And trauma is a different thing to everybody, right? You can just be a very sensitive person and grow up in a very loud environment and have trauma from that, right. So, you know, moving back to these moments in our life is really kind of the juicy center point of where all those symptoms of anxiety symptoms of depression, physical ailments that we can't quite understand where they all stem from. Right. And so there's a couple of ways to get these, you know, the the Tootsie Roll out the center of the lollipop, right. And so the big dose, it's kind of like taking a bite, you know, other processes like meditation, spiritual practices, microdosing is more like taking licks. Right. I guess that's the best analogy I come up with on the spot.
Toréa Rodriguez 41:01
I like it!
Evie Takacs 41:03
That's a good one. That's actually really helpful one Yeah.
Willis Mistral 41:06
And so the whole point of this is to, and I really feel like this existence is to come here as a grand school and to learn the lessons. And so most of them are in those early developmental years, right? So, yeah, zero to 14. Right. So these medicines can both lead us to that center point, just in different ways.
Toréa Rodriguez 41:30
Yeah, it's really well said, because you're right, there are a lot of different techniques to get at this, we can do therapy, we can do pretty rigid meditation practice. But I think what's fascinating to me mostly about different kinds of plant medicines, in this way is how there can be things that are stored in our subconscious or patterns that we get programmed into our subconscious, and all of that stuff that can lead towards a biological outcome. So there's this connection between the mind and the body in that way, and using something like psilocybin, or a different kind of plant medicine to be able to access that so that we can change and shift the biology like, that becomes really fascinating to me. And I'm curious if you have seen this time and time again, with your clients that you're helping with this kind of experience.
Willis Mistral 42:22
Oh, absolutely. And I mean, that's a huge shifts here that, you know, I mean, I had many years ago, but I feel like a lot of people are coming to understanding now is understanding that the mental, the physical, the emotional, the spiritual, all intrinsically and divinely connected, right? We can't affect one without affecting the others. And oftentimes, these physical ailments, right, are just symptoms of a root cause, right. And so instead of like the bandaid on the bullet wound method, it's about finding that those root causes, you know, the yogi's, talk about, you know, emotions from our childhood been held in the hips, and so certain stretches, release those things. And you'll have people crying during yoga and crying during massage therapy, having these emotional releases. And so it's also like, Okay, well, where does cancer come from? Nobody knows. However, when you get cancer, you're not rocking and rolling and moving, you're sitting, you're thinking about your life, you know, you're processing and integrating, right, all of those moments. And, and that's what it's about. Because, you know, when trauma happens, they call it fight, flight, or freeze. And I say fine, too. But for this example, it's a fight, flight or freeze. So when we're children, we can't fight it, we can't run away. And so maybe just maybe there's some frozen parts of ourselves waiting to be heard, waiting to be felt waiting to be processed, we need to be integrated, so we can move through life in a different way. And notice, I didn't say analyze, because we can analyze till the cows come home, this is a whole different world, right? This is feeling and allowing these feelings and emotions to be processed and brought to the surface. This isn't something that we have a lot of culture and history around. So you know, can be relatively new to folks. And so seeking out different practitioners and medicines that can help bring us to these deeper understandings, these moments can be super beneficial in our progression, right? So that we don't have to continue living the same cycles in our life, right? So that we can even address some of these physical ailments and pains, right? It's like anxiety, where's that? That's oftentimes the stomach issues with digestion, I'm having trouble digesting some mental and emotional processes that occurred to me in my life earlier in my life, right? It just starts to really make sense. All of these things start to click, once you have the experience, and oftentimes people have to get so sick that they're, you know, at the point where they have to listen right to the body.
Toréa Rodriguez 44:47
Yeah. So many of our clients have come to us at that point, you know, of like, I need to do something about my health. And you know, Evie and I both know that Sure. We can absolutely work on the biology and We're gonna start talking about some of these emotions, we're gonna start talking about some of these experiences that you've had, because it's all interrelated. Totally, you know, with the advent of the popularity of mushrooms and Netflix just brought out Michael Pollan series, you know how to change your mind from his book. And then, you know, there's fantastic fungi and all of the there's a lot of media right now, in terms of functional mushrooms and psychedelic mushrooms. What would you suggest to somebody? How would they go about finding a practitioner to work with? And how would they go about navigating some of the weird legal status that we're in right now with psychedelics?
Willis Mistral 45:36
Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, just talking to, you know, therapists, whoever you feel called to, and just bringing it into conversation, you know, this is becoming much more, especially in Oregon now that everything is kind of legalized here. It's just daily speak with most folks, right? Especially mushroom festivals, fungi fests, you know, you can often run into people who can connect you in some way there, but really practitioners, right. And so a lot of therapists out there understand the power of this medicine. I mean, you know, therapy back in the 70s, and 80s, was when they were using MDMA, and then LSD, and these substances, and they were having profound healing opportunities with therapy alongside the medicine, right to have somebody there that has no other intention except to, you know, find your questions and find your answers with you. Right to guide you towards that on a medicine that is opening and revealing and sensitizing Yeah, right, we can move back to these moments in time, and shift our perspective on them. Now, where to find these people? That's the That's the question. Right? I know that Oregon right now depends on the county that you're in right now. They're, they're saying yes or no, on the shoots, I don't know what's happening. But essentially, if it's a yes, in your, in your county, in Oregon, you can go see a therapist and have either the macro session, or they can work with you in the micro sense. And this is all being worked out. And they gave, I believe it's like a matter of two years from the time when this passed, I think there was last year. So I think we have another year before this really kind of starts to kick in here. Yeah, I would say, you know, talk to therapists, find folks that really understand this medicine, well, that you resonate with well, and talk with them one on one, you know, make sure this person is of the heart is here for the highest and best of every person that they come in me, you know, those would be important qualities to me to find a practitioner like that.
Toréa Rodriguez 47:29
I would agree mainly because, you know, it's it's my opinion, and I've heard this echoed by other people that it's less about the experience that you are having with the medicine itself. And it's more about the integration total. It's the integration that what the learnings are, that you take away with it. And it's the same goes for CBT therapy, or any other kind of therapy that you're receiving from somebody is that it's more about that relationship with that individual so that you can use the integrative tools that they're teaching you. And this really is a very similar thing, I think it's important to understand that there are going to be some like, well, Oregon's leading the way, right? Oregon's leading the way in terms of building out a state supported structure to be able to administer this kind of therapy along with a therapist, and then other states are starting to do the same. So it's really about talking to therapists finding out who they know, or is there somebody that they can put you in touch with, because eventually what will probably end up happening is this will end up being something that is legal and safe to do. Like, that's where I see the future going. I don't know if that's gonna happen. But that's what I see is kind of happening with what's showing up on the polls this year. And how federal is starting to, like relax on even studies, scientific studies, it's now easier for scientists to get access to these compounds to be able to do the study. So we're really starting to see a major shift.
Willis Mistral 49:00
Yeah. And that's beautiful. And so, you know, moving forward to, I don't know, if you're familiar with MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies, interesting folks that are kind of leading the way in proving that these medicines can be super beneficial to people with PTSD, depression, anxiety, etc, etc. However, the medicine they're using is a pharmaceutical version of these plant medicines, right? And so they're taking a balanced system, they're taking one thing out of it, they're expanding that and then putting it inside of you. So this is no different than 90% of pharmaceuticals, and then queue the list of side effects. So my question is, is like, what is the spirit of that medicine versus what is the spirit of the medicine that is grown in the earth? Yeah, you know, and so I'll just leave that open to interpretation for everyone to choose where you want to move with that.
Toréa Rodriguez 49:52
Yeah, beautiful question. I think it's something that we can all mull over. I want to be cognizant of our time and thank you so much for it. This conversation we would love to know, how do we find out more about you? Where can people find you? Where can people get your products? Do they have to be local? Tell us how to find you.
Willis Mistral 50:10
Thank you. So you can find me definitely on Instagram @thelovingfungi fungi and then the website should be done November 4, or fifth somewhere in there. And I'll have a big announcement on Instagram for that. Fantastic. And that's going to be thelovingfungi.com Fungi.
Toréa Rodriguez 50:30
Awesome. We will make sure to include both of those in the show notes. And thank you so much for coming on and talking to us and sharing with us your wisdom on all of this. We barely even touched the surface today. So maybe we'll have to have you come back on and delve into some of the other fun sciency geeky mind exploding fun things about fungi.
Willis Mistral 50:49
Totally. I told you. It's huge. Once you start nerding out on it. Be careful, you'll end up like me. And then it's just your whole lives. Right? That's right. Happy happy to come back. Thank you.
Toréa Rodriguez 50:59
Okay, good. Good, good, good. And then we always love to ask our guests. What is their favorite thing to do outside?
Willis Mistral 51:08
Is it obvious?
Toréa Rodriguez 51:11
Mushroom foraging?
Willis Mistral 51:12
That's That's it when I'm outside. That's what I'm doing.
Toréa Rodriguez 51:15
That's awesome.
Evie Takacs 51:16
That's awesome.
Toréa Rodriguez 51:17
Thank you, so much.
Evie Takacs 51:17
Appreciate you both appreciate you both very much. Yeah, thanks for having me on. This is really sweet.
Toréa Rodriguez 51:23
Hey, everybody, Toréa here. If you like what you heard today, then I'm inviting you to become a premium member over at the optimized wellness community because membership gets you instant and exclusive access to the full length versions of each of these conversations both in video and audio format. Not only that, but with the community you also get access to seminars regular Q&As activities are seasonal challenges and starting in December. Your first month in the membership, you will get a copy of the wellness optimizing journal, we also have a Luminar-tier membership that gets you access to the live talk breathwork classes as well as the visualization library and access to the coaches. Use the link in the show notes. Become a member and join us with the optimized wellness community.
Toréa Rodriguez 52:21
Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. If you’re ready to dig deeper into your health, stop playing the Whack-a-Symptom game, start testing to get better guidance, you can find more about Toréa at torearodriguez.com and you can find Evie at holisticallyrestored.com. Want a peek into what it’s like to work with us? Come join us at our Optimized Wellness Community. You can find the invitation link in the show notes below. And if you have a question for the show, you can submit your question under the podcast section of torearodriguez.com. Finally, if you found something helpful in this episode, don’t forget to leave a review, hit that follow button or share it with a friend. They’re gonna love that you thought of them. Until next time, see you outside!
