Patient Advocacy & Informed Consent | S3E7 (E027)
It used to be that medical doctors had the time to educate and inform patients of treatment options & side effects. These days, however, most doctors are limited to just a few short minutes and that all important information is getting skipped and never delivered. As a result, practitioners like Evie & Toréa are left to pick up the pieces. Listen in to learn what this looks like and how to ask questions differently so that you get all the information you need to make your own health choices!
In This Episode
Quick to prescribe mentality (02:05)
Being your own best advocate (03:06)
Dealing with conflicting information (04:10)
Conventional vs Functional approaches (05:10)
The problems with allopathic approaches (07:40)
Lack of education to patients (10:19)
LImitations of the medical system (12:23)
You know your body best (14:47)
Lack of informed consent is epidemic (15:47)
Asking different questions to get more informed consent (19:23)
Rare side effects are often left out of consent conversations (21:00)
Dealing with counterintuitive suggestions (25:46)
Practitioner requests are suggestions, not commands (27:51)
The power of Why (28:38)
Resources mentioned
Transcript
Toréa Rodriguez 0:08
Welcome to the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. I am your host, Toréa Rodriguez. And I’m joined by the lovely co host, Evie Takacs. Both of us are Functional Diagnostic Nutrition practitioners and we love working with women from all over the world, through our virtual programs, helping women not only feel better, but actually achieve that vibrant, no holds barred version of themselves, they’ve been missing for a long time, and how we actually get there. Well, that is what this show is all about. Now, please keep in mind that this podcast is created for educational purposes only and should never be used as a replacement for medical diagnosis or treatment. And if you like what you hear today, we would love for you to hit that follow button, leave a review in Apple podcast, share with your friends, and keep coming back for more. Let’s start today’s adventure shall we?
Toréa Rodriguez 1:08
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of the wildly optimizable wellness podcast. Evie and I are really excited to have this conversation and have you kind of be a fly on the wall on the conversation.
Evie Takacs 1:22
Yes. And so welcome to everyone who's listening from Health In Motion. Excited to have you back here. I know I've taken a little bit of a break with releasing episodes, but it's good to be back. And what perfect episode to come back to with a conversation between two practitioners discussing something that we see often unfortunately, and just thought it'd be good for you to hear what we think about certain situations we see in functional medicine, you know, obviously, in conventional medicine as well here too. But, we thought this would be a really good conversation because I actually brought this up to Toréa admittedly, in complaining about a situation that I had encountered with a client, nothing against the client. The situation was involving a doctor with the client.
Toréa Rodriguez 2:05
Yeah.
Evie Takacs 2:05
Just having, in my opinion, a knee jerk reaction to prescribe medication for the thyroid, without looking at all the other factors that we know that influence the thyroid in the client. You know, obviously we work with really great clients and people but she did like raise some concerns like I just don't feel like this is right, something seems off with your opinion. And so that really sparked this topic and this idea for us to have this conversation on the podcast because I went to Toréa, like can you believe this? This doctor just automatically prescribed medication and they're not even looking at the conversion and why would this not be happening and, and so we just started going on, we're like, wait a second, this needs to be a podcast episode. So, that's how this came about.
Toréa Rodriguez 2:46
Yeah. And we wanted you to I mean, this is important enough that we're cross-posting on both podcasts. So this is showing up on Evie's Health In Motion, this is showing up on Wildy Optimized Wellness, because we want you to be able to be the best advocate for yourself for your health. And being health practitioners trained in seeking out root cause and trained in seeking the whys behind things are happening is a very different training methodology than what doctors get in medical school. And so, we just wanted to give you a little bit of an insight as to what common things that we're seeing with our clients when they are trying to work with other practitioners. But I do want to make it really, really clear. For anybody who's listening to this. We do not have anything against medical doctors or their training. It's just a different style of training, which means their methodologies, their perspectives, and their treatment plans are going to be very different. And when you are a client receiving that treatment, we want to help you understand that you want to do something that's in alignment with you and do you have all available options in front of you. So yeah, let's talk about this situation that you had with a client because this is a very common thing that you and I both experience is we're working with a client. They are working with additional practitioners, I think it's fantastic. It's part of their team.
Evie Takacs 4:09
Definitely.
Toréa Rodriguez 4:10
Then they get conflicting information, and they come to us and ask us what do we think.
Evie Takacs 4:15
Yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 4:15
And sometimes, it's hard for us to not get a little bit on a soapbox, so we're standing on our soapboxes today. Ladies, this is how it's gonna go.
Evie Takacs 4:22
Yeah, this is our podcast. We can have a soapbox if we want. So yeah, it is hard and I also, transparency. I told my client like, hey, this is actually a really great topic for the podcast. Would it be okay if I share this situation? And she was like, Yeah, go for it for sure. So that's all clear too it's not like we're sitting here like, you know, sharing information about clients without them knowing. But yeah, so this happened to me, actually. Right. I was working with a functional medicine doctor, which I also think can be really tricky because a lot of Functional Medicine Doctors are still MDs, and so they were trained in that conventional medicine route, and in that training and education and the treatment plans. And that's somebody different than who would be like a Naturopathic Doctor where they are trained differently, they're trained more at root cause they're trained more at the body as a whole system, we're not going to isolate and you have this doctor for this part of your body and this doctor for that part of your body. So, I think that's confusing, especially because I'm here in Cincinnati. So, you know, we don't have well Naturopathic Doctors cannot do certain things in the state of Ohio. And so, we're very limited to what we can actually do with Naturopathic Doctors here. So a lot of times, the next step for people that I've noticed is going to be finding a Functional Medicine Doctor, which sounds great, and oftentimes, absolutely can be. But, what you need to remember is that they might also still be trained and operate in a lot of that. Okay, well, what is the medication for this particular issue, because again, they're trained in that. So again, not throwing shade to them, it's just more of we're not trained in that we don't believe in that as the first step. So, it is going to be something that can be conflicting, when you work with someone like Toréa and I, but also are working with a doctor, even if they are a Functional Medicine Doctor, I think people automatically think that that's gonna be more holistic and it doesn't always mean that at least that's been my situation, in my experience.
Toréa Rodriguez 6:12
Yeah, and what you're talking about Evie, is the typical training that MDs get is something called Allopathic Medicine, right? They're looking at a symptom, they're trying to stop the symptom, they're trying to identify the definitions of disease so that they can diagnose and most of their training has to do with disease has been identified. So then we give a medication, or we give some thing to the patient to be able to manage those symptoms, but they're not trained in what we call a root cause approach or consistently asking why. So, a lot of times these medications, whether it's an SSRI, or if it's a Thyroid Medication, or whatever, the training that we got, at least from FDN's, and some other Functional Medicine institutions trained the same way is that root cause approach, it's really looking at why. Well, is it really an SSRI deficiency? Is it really a Thyroid Hormone Deficiency? Or what else could be causing it? What could be causing the imbalance? Why is this happening? Why is there low T3? Why is there low levels of Serotonin? What is happening that's causing it and oftentimes, that requires that we're starting to look earlier and earlier up the biochemical chain to understand what are these things that are influencing the imbalance to begin with. Whereas, Allopathy and Allopathic Medicine is just kind of like there's a symptom, we apply this patch, I call it patching in that way. And the thing that, Evie you were talking about is that we also have to be careful because even though there are Naturopathic Doctors, Functional Medicine practitioners, this that the other, this Allopathic type approach is so ingrained in our culture, that it's the pill for an ill approach and we often see this too, with certain types of Natural practitioners, where they will treat every single lab result with a new supplement and then you have a client who's on 25 different supplements. Which is not not the way to go.
Evie Takacs 8:12
Yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 8:12
So tell us about this client. What happened? What was the situation that kind of spurred this conversation?
Evie Takacs 8:19
Yeah, so my client has found a new Functional Medicine Doctor looking at running, a few labs, you know, asked for my input of what are the labs I should recommend? And I said, well, based on what you're feeling, this will be something good to look at and, it's good to get a baseline for this, this and that. So, ended up running some Thyroid Labs, Full Thyroid Panel. And so, come back with the results. She meets with the doctor, the doctor automatically says, Well, based on these Thyroid Labs, we're going to start you on medication right away. No discussion on what's your lifestyle look like, you know, no questions on what's your nutrition? Or how's your sleep? Or how's your stress levels, no education either on like, Hey, I'm seeing low T3, but your T4 your TSH looks good. But, I'm seeing low T3. And the reason why that could be is this isn't that there was no education on just like the science behind how you could have low T3, what influences that what are some other things we could do lifestyle wise, nutrition wise, supplement wise, there was no education on that. And my initial reaction, because she had sent me the lab results before and I didn't know that she had met with the doctor. So I kind of had a game plan of like, great, I get to educate on what you know how, like how you convert T4 and T3 and what that means, and I was really excited about that. I love educating in that way. And she comes back and she's like, Yeah, he recommended Thyroid meds. And I was like, Okay, and you know, I could tell there was more said, say more, you know what's going on, and we just got to it. And on the inside, I'm like, this is so frustrating to me because she knows that that she's not feeling comfortable with that diagnosis. She wanted to know more. So when I started educating and sharing, hey, this is a reason why that could happen. It was like life started coming back to her and she was like Oh! I get it. So wait, what if we approach it this way? Or could I try this first? And I said, Well, yeah, definitely, that would be my approach. I think if you would like to, I think you're, you have good basis as to think why that would be helpful for you. And so it was just this frustrating moment of like, we're not being educated, there's no informed consent, honestly. That's what I think also falls under is that you're not being taught that, hey, this is why this could happen, this is how you can improve it from other perspectives. Medication still might be appropriate, however, let's try these other things. And the other biggest complaint I have with that is when you get on Thyroid Medication, when you don't have an Autoimmune or something clear cut that you're like, hey, let's try and put this fire out before you know while working on the others, and there's no conversation of how you're going to get off of it. That's what really hurts me too, is because a lot of women particularly get put on Thyroid medication prematurely without looking at lifestyle without looking at stress without looking at nutrition, their exercise their adrenals, they get put on it prematurely, and there's no plan to come off of it. And that's why they're on it for 10,15, 20 years. Continue to gain weight, and they have no relief and their symptoms.
Toréa Rodriguez 11:06
Yeah,
Evie Takacs 11:07
it's just it's it's mind boggling to me.
Toréa Rodriguez 11:09
These are the things that drive us nuts. This is why we're on a soapbox this morning is when there isn't a consideration as to what's driving those lab markers. We don't know, is it an Autoimmune Disease? And now you've got Autoimmunity at play? Well, they don't know. They didn't check for the markers that would tell the patient and the doctor, whether or not there was Autoimmunity? Or is it something else? And so a lot of times, this is what drives us bonkers is that we know enough to start looking for what is the reasoning behind this happening, there wasn't any education about how the Brain sends signals to the Pituitary, and then to the Thyroid, right to be able to generate the hormone that there's conversion that happens in the Liver. So Liver Health also needs to be part of the picture, you know, and that kind of thing. And so if we don't understand what the cause is for those resulting lab markers, then just treating it with a medication may not do one ounce bit of good, which is the unfortunate part. And you're absolutely right, we see this time and time again. And chances are, to be fair to the Medical Doctor at playing. I don't even know who this person is. So
Evie Takacs 12:23
I don't either.
Toréa Rodriguez 12:23
To be fair. Yeah, to be fair, this Medical Doctor is probably working in a system where he or she has 15 minutes with the patient. That's it. And all they can do is say, Here's your lab results, this is what we're doing. They don't have the time, the luxury of time, like Evie, and I have to be able to educate our clients on what those mean, what are the other possibilities? What are some other rocks that we can look under to see if we can't figure out what's happening? And also have that informed consent conversation?
Evie Takacs 12:54
Yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 12:55
Let's face it, we know that a lot of people want to have informed consent, but our doctors in the system that we have today, don't even give them the time to be able to give them informed consent.
Evie Takacs 13:07
Right.
Toréa Rodriguez 13:07
If that makes sense.
Evie Takacs 13:08
Right. When I first started sharing my own health stuff on my social media prior before even becoming an FDN, I was sharing a lot on different medications, I was trying because I've been on almost any type of Thyroid Medication there is mine is maybe two. And I'd share all these things about this and how oh, did you know there's trace amounts of Gluten in this and did you know that this actually has literature that shows that these are side effects long term? And people were like, wait, what I didn't know that I've been on this for 10 years, and I really haven't felt any better. But I didn't realize it was because of that we just kept increasing my dose. And again, it's like I would at least right, I'd be more comfortable if you agreed to be on something if you knew those things. And you said you know what, I get it. I see that, but I'm still willing to give it a try. This client wasn't given any of that. She came to me for those questions. And I'm also trying to pick up the pieces because I'm like, Well, what did you talk about? Or what else did he say? Or did he suggest anything else? And because I want to make sure I provide a good environment and a good solid answer as well an educated answer, but I need to pick up those pieces. And I just see this a lot. And it's it's frustrating as a practitioner, but also just you and I both we both, you know have Hashimoto. So we get it personally too. And it is difficult, I think to step into being an advocate for yourself, especially when you are working with doctors because I don't know if it's like white coat syndrome for some people, but for me, it was like, Well, what do I know? Like you're the one that went to Medical School. But then you have to remember like, well, you know, I but I've been with my body way more than you have been with my body.
Toréa Rodriguez 14:41
Yeah.
Evie Takacs 14:41
So I think that scares people or is is a hesitation for people to speak up in those appointments.
Toréa Rodriguez 14:47
That's a beautiful point because the more that we can help people understand that absolutely. Who's going to know their body best is the person who's been living in their human suit for all the years that they've been alive, that is the person who's going to know their body best. There is not one person on this planet, I don't care how many medical degrees you have, or how many other types of degrees that you have in Physiology this, that and the other, that person will never know more than the person inside that human suit and so trusting in your intuition trusting in what it is that you know, and if something is not resonating, then speaking up, and you know what be prepared, you might get the response of like, well, this is how it is my way or the highway, and then you know, Okay, it's time to find another practitioner who's willing to work with you, and answer the questions that you have, etc. So that you can make the best decision for yourself because lack of informed consent is one of the biggest, I would say epidemic problems we have in healthcare today and it happens with all different modalities. It happens with Naturopathic Medicine that happens in Functional Medicine that happens with MDs and everything else. And you know, I had a personal experience this year with lack of informed consent, right? And when somebody doesn't know that they're about ready to walk into a risk of some sort and experience that it can be rather shocking to find yourself in that place and be like, Hey, why is this even happening? And then you dig and you do the research. And you find out Oh, yeah, that's a rare side effect of that medication. It's rather disappointing and quietly, infuriating.
Evie Takacs 16:30
Yeah, yeah and part of this conversation is not just from us being you know, practitioners and working with clients. But it's, again, personal like we we understand this. I mean, I felt the same way when I was prescribed the birth control, hormonal birth control pill, I was on that for 10 years, I didn't know I didn't even know a quarter of the side effects until the last year that I was on it. And then I was like, alright, time to ditch this, I'm going a different route. And it is frustrating, because again, I think it's just like the intent of well, we have a problem and we have a solution. And the solution is in a pill, but there is no magic pill and so, I'm hoping that this, I think there's an uprising, right, and maybe uprisings a little dramatic of a word. But I think there's more of an awareness to people of like, hey, maybe there's another alternative, or there's another way that I could tackle this and so when my client came to me with that, that was giving me hope of like, this is great that people are waking up to Hey, like I understand medication is really great can be it can save people's lives it's important. There's a time and a place for it. But is this the time and place for me? I think that's a good question to be asking yourself. And
Toréa Rodriguez 17:37
Absolutely.
Evie Takacs 17:37
As I'm thinking like, if someone's listening to this, and they're, they've been in that situation, or maybe anticipate Well, that could be me sometime. I want to give some ideas and maybe some questions that they could ask to their doctor to kind of get that conversation started. Because again, it can be a little intimidating. But one of the things that I suggested to my client was, you know, just ask, is there anything else that could help increase this value? Or is there anything else I can do with my nutrition? Or is there anything else I can do with my lifestyle? Or my stress? Or are there other markers we didn't look at that would give us a better picture of this?
Toréa Rodriguez 18:11
Fabulous questions.
Evie Takacs 18:13
Right. And a caveat to that is that, unfortunately also MDs are not trained in nutrition. I think they have like one class, like literally one class, not a semester, like a class. So I don't
Toréa Rodriguez 18:25
A single lecture.
Evie Takacs 18:25
I don't know what their classes are. Yeah, like, a lecture on nutrition. So they might not be the best person for that. But that, who knows, maybe they are maybe they've done some additional education on that or can refer you to someone. So keep that in mind. But asking those questions, I think is helpful for you, but also kind of tells your doctor like, hey, they actually really want to work this, like they're not just here to take a pill and go on in their day like this could be really good and motivating for the doctor to hear to.
Toréa Rodriguez 18:53
It is really good because it gets the doctor to start thinking about or the professional, whoever they're working with right to think about other potential situations that might be leading up to it. And I like your questions that you have presented, because that gives the patient or the person the ability to ask different questions to get different answers rather than what is your opinion? Because what is your opinion, it's going to be a very narrow field, typically of what is going to be given and I'll give a personal example from the summer and my experience, right. So some of you know if you've listened back on previous episodes, I was diagnosed earlier this year with Skin Cancer and elected to use some Western Medicine type approaches to remediating that Skin Cancer and one of those involved a topical prescription. And when I asked what can I expect when I use this medication, I was given the typical response that somebody might have or the typical things to look out for what I wasn't given and wasn't in my informed consent session was the rare possibilities of other things happening. Which I think are very important to give to all people, because they don't know am I going to be that person who is the rare person where that shows up. And guess what, I was that rare person where what showed up was some massive hair loss as a result of using this medication. And we all know that some cancer treatments result in massive hair loss. And I am grateful, grateful, grateful that it wasn't worse than what it was. But when I was experiencing a good three to four week cycle of clumps of hair coming out, I freaked the eff out, basically, right, and I had to do my own research to find out that that was a rare side effect of that same medication. And I have to say, this is why I'm on this soapbox, because I don't want anybody else to go through that, number one, and number two, to have to feel that like infuriation, or let down supreme let down by the clinic of not giving me the informed consent that I felt like I deserved, which we all lawfully are deserving of and should be given. But oftentimes, it's not. So yeah, I think asking those questions, a different question that I would ask now is like, what should I expect and what are also the rare things that happen with this so that I know about those possibilities? I think by calling that out, you will glean the totality of the consent that you should be given in the first place.
Evie Takacs 18:53
Yeah.
Toréa Rodriguez 19:26
And it's a shame that we have to do it. But here we are, folks, these are the techniques that we've learned along the way to be able to get more education, more information so that we can make informed decisions for ourselves, because we know what's best for us.
Evie Takacs 21:51
Right. And thank you for sharing your personal experience with that this summer. And it's really unfortunate that you went through that. But you know, not but but like, I do think that because that experience and all the other ones that we've had up to this point, this helps us become better practitioners too because we are in that position. So when a client is starting on a new supplement, or maybe a gut cleansing supplement, or whatever they're doing, maybe it's CellCore, whatever, I get a lot of questions of, well, is there anything I should expect? And because I've been through that, and I know what to expect and I know some of the rare things that could happen with that, I provide that information. So I think it's better just to out front load it and say, Hey, this is really unlikely, but this could happen and we'll keep an eye out on it. And I think that goes a long way with people. Because I know it did with me personally when I was in that position.
Toréa Rodriguez 22:38
Yeah. And I think, you know, again, this isn't to put anybody down. I think it's just the situation that we are in and what's happened with the education from a medical standpoint, like we fractioned off all of the studies, right, so a medical doctor can be a Cardiologist or, you know, some kind of specialist right. And so they're not Nutritionists, that's a specialism that has been born out of the way that we are educating people on health and medicine. And so because we've got all these specialists, we tend to not have the 30,000 foot view that Evie and I talk about all the time, we want to take that step back and consider all of the different things that are going into somebody's health, and that includes diet and lifestyle, and what their habits are and what they're habitually thinking and all of the things right, their relationships are impacting their health, like we do need to consider the whole human being and I think, you know, giving some good practices or good methodologies to be able to navigate these appointments that we have with other people on our health team to get the full picture is great. And, also taking that step back and getting that 30,000 foot view and taking the time to get the second opinions of the other people on your team is super important as well.
Evie Takacs 24:02
Yeah, definitely and we're hoping that this conversation is something that motivates you to do that, in the future. If and when you encounter a situation like that, or if you're currently in a situation like this, where you're working with practitioners, and you have multiple people, multiple opinions, like, you know, hopefully these questions have been helpful for you. And again, we're not there to, you know, put down anyone and it's again, I don't know the intention of the doctor, I think that he was probably doing the best that he could with the information he had and the training he has and I'm sure there's things that I do that maybe some people wouldn't understand at first, but it was just the frustration of I know what it's like to be in that position, and I want people to feel prepared to get through it when they are in that position. So we're hoping that this conversation can guide you through that if and when you do encounter a situation like that.
Toréa Rodriguez 24:51
Evie Have you noticed any other types of situations that you've seen with other practitioners that you want people to be aware of that don't have to do with you know, medication versus not medication? Are there other similar situations that you've seen?
Evie Takacs 25:05
I guess I don't have like a specific example. It's more of in general, your again, we all have different opinions, we all have different training, we all have different experiences that are influencing the way that we work with people. So getting differing opinions is to be expected when you're working with multiple different people. And that's where, again, tuning into what does feel right for you, since you are the one in your body and you've been in your body, you know, this whole time is important. But, you know, also keep in mind that sometimes it is going to be something that feels uncomfortable, or that is differing from someone that you maybe you've trusted all these years, there were times when I would you know, even Toréa, when I started working with you as my practitioner, there were things that you were, you know, suggesting and recommending, to me, that seemed counterintuitive to what I had been told all these years from all these other practitioners, but I leaned into that, because I was like, Well, I invested in her in a reason. There's got to be something here like it nothing. There were no red flags for me. So I thought, Okay, I'm gonna go with that, even though it feels not not unnatural, but just not what I'm used to. And so I'd, I'd really encourage you to be okay with a differing opinions there and knowing that they're going to be there. And going with that, if you really feel like the person you've invested in is someone that you can trust, which hopefully it is, because why else would you have done that?
Toréa Rodriguez 26:24
Exactly. I think it brings up a really good point, right, this balancing of how much do I lean into something new or different, right. And I had that challenge, too, with the whole, you know, leaning back into Western Medicine and using some Western Medicine approaches for the Skin Cancer that was very different than what I was comfortable with. But I knew that I had to lean into that and also ask myself at the end of the day, what feels right for me, right and checking in with my intuition. One example that I was gonna give that is kind of parallel to this that doesn't have to do with medication is you know, Evie, and I really love getting Continuous Glucose Monitoring Data to help along this progress. And in fact, we've got an episode coming up to talk even more about that. But also, sometimes with some of those devices, you can get a dietician assigned to you to give you insight and guidance on that. Here's the sticky bit, right, so one of my clients got a CGM (Continuous Glucose Monitoring) started working with the Dietician, the Dietitian took them way down a rabbit hole that they weren't comfortable with. And when my client came back to me and said, Hey, I'm getting these recommendations to do all these things, track my food in this way, and I'm feeling really hard to myself, and I'm getting judgmental, and I'm getting upset, and so just knowing that just because somebody's asking you to do something, their methodology, they're just teaching you what they know. Right? So the doctor is teaching you what they know, the Dietitians, teaching you what they know, we're teaching you what we know. And so we need to take that information all in and really ask ourselves what feels best, take what feels best, and leave the rest. Like that's I love that thing, take what works best and leave the rest, because that helps me know that I can follow what is going to ultimately be the best for me if I'm following that intuition so.
Evie Takacs 28:18
Definitely, so well said. So we hope this again, conversation is helpful. And if you have any questions or you know, a similar story that you think would be helpful to share, we'd love to hear it.
Toréa Rodriguez 28:28
Yeah.
Evie Takacs 28:29
And hopefully, this is something that empowers you if and when you do experience something like this, and again, just empowers you to lean into who you are, and what you know, is best for your body.
Toréa Rodriguez 28:39
Yeah. And the most powerful question you can be asking is why? Why is that happening in the first place that will help guide you, especially with any team member you have on your team for improving your health and wellness? If you keep asking why and getting curious, you can even take it to that annoying, like three or four year old version of well, why is the sky blue mom? Sometimes we need to use it at that level to really be able to discover what's going on for us. So let that be your guidance. Thank you for listening to this episode. And we'll see you guys next time.
Toréa Rodriguez 29:15
Hey, thanks for joining us for this episode of the Wildly Optimized Wellness podcast. If you’re ready to dig deeper into your health, stop playing the Whack-a-Symptom game, start testing to get better guidance, you can find more about Toréa at torearodriguez.com and you can find Evie at holisticallyrestored.com. Want a peek into what it’s like to work with us? Come join us at our Optimized Wellness Community. You can find the invitation link in the show notes below. And if you have a question for the show, you can submit your question under the podcast section of torearodriguez.com. Finally, if you found something helpful in this episode, don’t forget to leave a review, hit that follow button or share it with a friend. They’re gonna love that you thought of them. Until next time, see you outside!
